1915 manhole oiler for kingpin

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1915 manhole oiler for kingpin
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Webb on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

Is anyone reproducing the manhole oilers for 1915 kingpins?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 09:47 pm:

I don't think so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 09:54 pm:

I'm just using flip-tops until the right thing comes along.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:02 pm:

If you are speaking of spring cap oilers they are sold by Restoration Supply Company in two different configurations.
They also have twist top oilers.......when's the last time you saw those for sale?

http://www.restorationstuff.com/

The entire catalog pdf is there >>> http://www.restorationstuff.com/pdf/RestorationSupplyCompany.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:07 pm:

I don't think anyone reproduces the 1915 - 18 style oilers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:08 pm:

I suppose a photo would help.........

oilers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:09 pm:

Does anyone know the diameter of the hole where the manhole oilers fit into the tie rod bolts and kingpins? The later ones are a few thou less than 3/8", but I think the earlier ones were smaller. Does anyone know for sure?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:13 pm:

Craig,

The "D" Series Bowen flip top is the closest to correct for 1915. Close but NQR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:19 pm:

Craig,
Are there more? The "D" series looks close, but screws in place. The right ones push in (see Royce's pic)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:32 pm:

You'll have to make do or do without.
Those are what are available short of finding used or NOS <shrug>


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 08:22 pm:

Mike

Trent's work on oilers shows the manhole, but doesn't specify the diameters.

http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~trentb/Boltoilers.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 08:35 pm:

I have some NOS steel caps and a few springs for them,but no Brass tops left.They are tough to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 09:07 pm:

I think the spindle bolt and tie rod bolt oilers for a '15 are identical. I think I may have an original tie rod bolt for a '15 some where. It was on my '13 touring when I bought it 53 years ago. I agree with Mike, that the diameter of the shank on a '15 oiler is probably smaller than the later press in oilers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 08:49 am:

I thought all of the threaded oilers were a 1/8 pipe thread whether on the tie rod or king pin. Is that not correct?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 10:04 am:

John,

That is correct. The 1915 - 18 kingpin and tie rod bolts are not threaded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 11:54 am:

A friend is considering making the manhole oilers of brass, and he sent me some prototypes. The ones he sent are too small to work with currently-available reproduction bolts; that's why I asked the question about the original hole diameter.

My thought is that he should make them the size which will work with the kingpins and tie rod bolts that are available, since that's what everyone will be working with. Those have 3/8" holes. They would press into the non-threaded holes like the flip-top oilers do. I know "two wrongs don't make a right", but in the real world, we need to work with what's available. It would be nice if there were lots of NOS '15 spindle bolts and tie rod bolts lying around, but obviously that's not the case. Any thoughts on this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 12:04 pm:

The only man hole type tie rod oiler I recall seeing/had was steel not brass. Could have been a replacement or something used just before going to the flip top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 12:15 pm:

I assume the idea of using brass is for easier manufacture. While that may not be strictly "correct", I think it would be better than the current situation. At least they would match the brass oilers on the shackles. I agree with the idea of making them to fit the currently available bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 02:50 pm:

Mike, I have also been working on making the manholes, but as an insert which would thread into my early spindle bolts. I have the drawings; it wouldn't be technically correct but it would look 100% correct once installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 03:30 pm:

It's a simple matter to turn off the threads on what is already available to make it a press fit oiler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 03:31 pm:

Here are what are believed to be NOS or an exact copy (machined by the late Otis Clinton) of the oilers in question. The oiler shank is machined as part of the bolt assembly and the shank diameter is .3850 - see photos. These are the tie rod bolts but I have a set of spindle bolts machined the same. They have brass lids. The last photo shows the pin that holds the internal spring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 03:46 pm:

I have a limited supply of brass twist oilers -'09-'11 w/patent info, not spring assisted,'12-'16 w/patent w/spring assist & generator - drop me a private e-mail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 03:53 pm:

Correction to above - '12-'14 not '16.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 04:41 pm:

Here is the only surviving manhole cover from my 1916. When I found the car, all the others were either missing or replaced by the twist kind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 06:12 pm:

RV -- So how long do you expect it will be until you have some of those to market?

Steve T. -- Those tie rod bolts are really nifty. It's too bad that Otis didn't make a few thousand of those. They look nearly identical to the one posted by Bill E.

Bill E. -- Thanks for posting the pic of yours. I don't think I've ever seen a bona fide original like that. I have several odd spindle bolts and tie rod bolts with manhole oilers, but not a matched pair among them. They all appear to be pressed-in sheet metal (steel) ones. There must have been lots of folks making them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 10:23 pm:

Hi all,

I finally managed to dig out some of my parts including some manhole tie rod and king pin bolts. Just to add to the discussion here this is what I found. First, all of the oilers are made of steel not brass. Some may have been brass plated. Some had residue of black paint. All of the caps were made of sheet steel rolled over on the edge (no knurling on the edge but smooth). The spring hooked to an eyelet that was cut/pressed out from the underside of the cover.

There were two sizes of oilers. I used a fractional caliper so the following measurements are approximate but very close.

The small oiler body where it enters the bolt body is 11/32". The cover/cap is 7/16" diameter.

The larger oiler body where it enters the bolt body is 7/16" and the cover/cap is 9/16" - 37/64".

I measured all I had and in each case the measurements came out the same for all the small size ones and the large ones also all measured the same.

As to the opening in the tie rod and king pin bolts where the oilers press in I have no information. It may be the same size as the oiler body or the oiler body may step down to a smaller diameter (such as the later common flip top oilers.

Hope this helps a bit. I don't know how 1915-16 oilers might vary from 1917-18 (size; brass plated or all brass?). Sorry, I can't take/post pictures. Hope to get my 1915 projects correct too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 11:57 pm:

So---trying to wrap my arms around all of this; looks like Aug 1914 Ford started machining the shank of the oiler as part of the bolt and attaching a knurled edge brass top with a spring hooked from inside the hole in the top of the bolt (pics above). This was done until Feb 1917, when the machining making the oiler an integral part of the bolt stopped and the shank with lid attached by internal spring was developed and manufactured of light steel to press into the top of the bolts and function and look the same as before. As customary with Ford, this direct replacement negated the need to make a special replacement part--the new bolts with press in oilers were a direct replacement. Within a year, Ford realized it was a lot cheaper to make fliptop oilers than the manhole type and they would serve the same purpose and even fit, so, he no longer even had to make manhole replacements. That's why the only replacement manhole press in oilers I've ever encountered are steel and they were only made for about a year, so, there is not many around. Likewise, by the time the bolts with the machined shank wore out, the only replacements available were the ones for the press in oilers. Finally, since everyone knows the fliptop oilers are for the newer Ts, and the manholes aren't available, they drive in the older brass twist oilers because they're available, work, and look pretty! Is this a fairly accurate understanding of the 1915 oiler situation?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 08:06 am:

I agree with Dennis, mine are steel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 11:04 am:

Mine too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Wightman on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 11:32 am:

Yes, mine on the 1915's are all steel too, I think, but I will go back and look.

Also, I have a new old stock pair of King Pin bolts with the man hole covers for the 1915; the tops are steel, if anyone want to look at them. I have been too lazy to install them for the last 40 years. But it's on my list of things to do.

I have not seen the brass top ones before, or maybe just never noticed they were brass (maybe tarnished and covered in old oil dirt), so those are interesting to me. I would think the brass tops would have fallen off fairly quickly.

Rollie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 01:39 pm:

BTW, the oiler I posted has an all brass top - not plated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 02:29 am:

Hello again,

Does anyone have any info on when the steel manhole cover changed from the small size to the large size "manhole"? Did they exist concurrently or which came first?

I also noticed the small steel manhole oilers were installed in the tie rod bolts that had a larger hex head than the large diameter oilers.


If anyone has one of the small (7/16" diameter cover) tire rod bolts they could spare please let me know. I would sure like to finish out my set correctly.

Thanks, Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 06:54 am:

Hopefully some additional information but it repeats some of what what shared above. From Trent Boggess, please see:

Spindle Arm Connecting Rod Bolt Oilers
http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~trentb/Boltoilers.html


http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~trentb/DR010799.htm

Home page at: http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~trentb/Contents.html where he has information on earlier oilers also (Model N to 1913 or so).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 10:42 am:

Hap -- Thanks for posting Trent's research. One of the interesting things he found is that the tie rod and spindle bolts (like those posted by Steve and Bill above) had the built-in oilers until midway through the '17 model year, when the separate press-in manhole oilers came into use. Then the manhole oilers were used until '22, when they were replaced by the flip-top style. I don't think any of us knew that the manhole oilers were used that late in Model T production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 11:37 am:

Here - Here !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 03:47 pm:

If they were used clear up to 1922, that's all the more reason somebody should be making them. That would mean there are many thousands of cars that have flip-top oilers incorrectly. I'd think there are enough people who are purist enough to constitute a market for them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 09:03 pm:

Steve -- I believe you're correct about that, especially if the repop manhole oilers will fit those same tie rod / spindle bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, February 21, 2014 - 12:31 am:

Count me in for my '16!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Webb on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 07:08 pm:

Thanks to all who responded to my question...When someone reproduces these let me know so I can get a set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Sunday, February 23, 2014 - 01:32 am:

I'll take a couple of sets for sure.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration