OT: Another "Burnt Car" question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT: Another "Burnt Car" question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 09:24 pm:

A 40 ford tudor solid survivor in a hay barn fire was pulled out before the barn fell in. I haven't been able to do a close inspection yet, but, it appears just the paint was burned off from the windshield back. Can't tell yet the status of the interior or even if the glass shattered, but sitting outside in the weather for a few weeks since the fire, I can see the body developing surface rust from paint gone. Did anything strange happen to the metal? How can I tell if it can just be sanded and painted inside and out, or if it's not economically repairable? I've been trying to buy the car for years, but, the owner wouldn't sell because it was her deceased dad's first car and soon she was going to "get someone to get it running for her." Since the fire, they're undecided. I've brought back some T's that were rusty piles, but, I've never tackled a car that has been in a fire. Is this one of those times when you should just make yourself walk away?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 10:14 pm:

"Their still undecided". Take a good long look. I'll bet the glass is compromised and possibly the interior too. It doesn't run. It needs a full sand/prime/paint job not counting any rust out & accident damage. See what their going for on some on-line sites if you can find any and tighten up your shoe laces because I think you'll be walking away. Either they'll continue to do a Buck and Wing or you'll find it's not worth the effort. If you simply must leave your phone # and DO NOT under any circumstances mention a price. Let them call you & stay cool. (If they call ask for a title. If none I'd be gone).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 10:17 pm:

i lost 3 cars when my shop burned, july 14 2010, my life will never be the same. the heat was mainly up high, tin building with spray foam insulation. the fire got between the tin(inside & outside walls) and heat lingered in the ceiling. that being said, the stuff on the floor was exposed to some flame, but not a lot of heat. my just done 29 ford roadster burned paint, interior, glass etc, but did not even burn the tires off. we later mothballed it with oil and the motor turned with its own starter motor. sheet metal feels straight yet, but only block sanding will tell the truth if and when i ever get to rebuilding it. 2nd was a 30 ford pickup mid way thru a face lift, and again motor ok, wood gone, glass gone, but sheet metal ok. 30 packard had lots of wood in it, thus made a good fire. the old motorcycles i had stored hanging from the ceiling from aluminum chain hoists which melted, then crashed on the poor packard and did her in. your car, if the heat stayed up in the hay loft should be ok i would think. feel your hand over the big flat area's to feel if its warped, and clean it up soon. ash is corrosive. good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 10:36 pm:

one point i for got to add, a metal roof will hold all the heat in, where as a wood roof will usually burn a hole thru, which lets the heat out. if you are talking an old wood barn, that fact would be on your side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 12:40 am:

Clayton speaks of a tin building with foam sprayed for insulation, I would like to point out that this type of construction was very popular about 30 to 40 years ago, if you have such a building, you need to examine it for corrosion damage, the chemicals in the spray on foam is so corrosive in some cases that the structural integrity can be compromised. I have a neighbour who has a large potato warehouse that was built about 35 years ago using this method, and about 6 years ago, a large part of the roof fell in, it looks like a plane crashed into it, but is was just the damage from the corrosion that eat through the heavy steel beams that formed the roof. He was lucky that the part of the roof that fell was the only part of the building that did not have equipment in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 08:00 am:

So what is a person supposed to use to insulate a metal building if foam is bad?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 09:57 am:

I'm not sure about the corrosive properties of foam. I think I'd have heard about that if it were true. I'm going with moisture trapped between the foam and the metal roof causing it to rust out. Un vented fiberglass insulation against wood roof sheathing will cause rotting. That's a fact. Why insulate a peak to begin with? Heat will rise to the peak and stop. It's far better to add ceiling beams and insulate there instead of the peak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 12:37 pm:

Like much of the architecture these days, that type of construction where by the insulation is sprayed on the underside of roof sheets evolved out of laziness to save on labor, but it does little to actually cool a building... it only holds in the heat up near the roof and is inefficient, energy-wise. The tried and true methods of keeping a structure cool take labor, effort materials, skill and planning.

Don't insulate against the metal roof, for even with insulation close to the underside of roof sheeting, there needs to be a gap to allow for the movement of air over the surface of the insulation so as to carry away the heat from the insulation. Build a loft with straight joists from wall to wall just below the rafters and put Batt insulation between the joists. Allow an opening at the eaves (soffits) and build in louvered and screened gable vents or a long ridge vent, big enough to accommodate the space. A convection air current will form as the rising heat pushes the hot air out the gables or ridge vents while pulling in cool air from the outside, keeping the building cool.

As for the metal sheets on the car, heat, if hot enough, will warp metal sheeting, but if you're lucky, the car was removed before it got hot enough to warp the steel. Jim Patrick



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 01:04 pm:

I have straightened fenders and other body panels that were exposed to fire. Panels and flat areas like to warp from the heat and are not easy to get back in shape. The metal becomes harder to work....especially if it was cooled quickly putting out the fire. I restored 2 cars that had fire damage,had to gut everything inside to get the burned smell out. I even went to the extent of painting the bare floor and all interior areas before replacing everything. When finished, the cars smelled and looked like new. Just a lot of work but it can be done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 02:11 pm:

It is especially difficult if not impossible to get the fire smell out of a wooden structure, which is essential when rebuilding, using the surviving shell, but I was able to do it. In 1987, after recovering from my burns, I undertook to rebuild my house. Luckily, the fire department got to my house very fast and were able to get the fire under control, rather quickly and were able to save most of the structure. After the fire my house still had the old growth heart pine studs, siding, rafters, roof and flooring, although every surface was covered in black soot. During the fire, it got so hot that a bleach bottle sitting on the mantle was melted and there was a line of drops of pine resin on the floor that had dripped from the length of each stud up in the attic. Another minute and it would have exploded in flames.

Anyway, instead of painting the interior of the structure, to cover the soot and mask the fire smell, I borrowed a sandblaster and blasting suit with helmet and air supply from work and sandblasted every inch of the black soot that covered everything. It turned out to be the best thing I ever did, for, almost 30 years later, the paint would most likely start to deteriorate and allow the fire smell to escape and to this day, if I happen to smell that burned wood smell in the neighborhood, the memories of that awful day come flooding back. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Monday, February 17, 2014 - 03:10 pm:

memories of that awful day, are indeed a bad thing


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