I am soon to collect the two model T's I have been lucky enough to be given. They are a 6 hour drive away and haven't seen them for a few months but one thing that sticks in my mind is one has a flat or squared windscreen and the other has a windscreen that appears to follow the curve of the cowling. I have been told they are both 1923. The flat cowled one is a tourer and the curved windscreen us a truck... Or perhaps it was trucked in its past life. Can any one offer an explanation. I will get the chassis number and look up the exact details when I finally get them home.
They are both in New Zealand, does this make any difference?
Yeah David, it will make a difference. You'll get a more precise assessment from one of our Southern Hemisphere cousins as bodies were radically different from Canadian/U.S. Model Ts and bodies made "down under". From my perspective, the "follow the curve of the cowling" description leads me to say '26-'27 (U.S.) and "squared windscreen" to me implies '13-'22 but with rounded corners. Tell us the engine number, that will be a better determinant of the year model.
Given? Lucky lucky lucky you!
You are correct that the Australian Model Ts had many different style bodies because of the tariff situation the Australian government set up to bolster the local body making trade. But New Zealand did not have a similar tariff on complete cars verses parts. So the New Zealand bodies were normally the same as the Canadian bodies and were shipped initially as complete bodies on the chassis and later as body panels to be assembled in New Zealand. There were also aftermarket bodies for the T and TT chassis in New Zealand but the majority of the Ts sold there used a Canadian body or body assembled in New Zealand using the Canadian panels.
As mentioned at the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/420811.html?1391560306#POST594471 welcome to the MTFCA forum and the Model T hobby. Your experience with restoring the early Austin 7s will be a help as many restoration items will be similar. A few will be unique to the T and some will require special training and tools or will need to be contracted out (such as pouring the babbitt bearings and line boring the engine block so the crankshaft fits properly). But you mentioned the engine in the touring had been started regularly up until the last 10 years. If it was stored in a dry location and it is helpful if someone poured some oil into the spark plug holes, the T engine will very likely be in as good (or bad) shape as it was ten years ago.
Ref your question : “They are both in New Zealand, does this make any difference?” Yes, in general the New Zealand Model T Fords were originally shipped almost complete from Canada with the wheels and tops taken off and put into a large box. In 1922 the first Ford Assembly Plant in New Zealand was completed. I’m not sure of the date of first production, but they received the cars in a complete knocked down condition where the body had to be assembled, upholstered, and painted and then mounted on the chassis that was also assembled. Most of the complex parts would have been shipped from Canada (such as engines). Other parts such as gas tanks, upholstery, etc. were manufactured or produced right there in New Zealand. So for you touring car if it was assembled in New Zealand – it would most likely look similar to the low cowl 1920-22??? touring below: Photo courtesy of the Turnbull Library [official credit:
A man and woman standing beside a car on a road in a hilly, bushy area. Godber, Albert Percy, 1875-1949 :Collection of albums, prints and negatives. Ref: APG-2062-1/2-G. Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand. http://natlib.govt.nz/records/23183862 ] Note, that is a low cowl Model T and I do NOT know when the Canadian production switched from the low cowl to the high cowl production. And if they sent the old low cowl parts to New Zealand for them to use up or not. If anyone else has additional information on when that change occurred please let us know.
Below is photo of posted by Alex Brown showing his relatives 1923 touring. It still has the 5 piece rear seat tub. Alex believes it was assembled/sold in Timaru, New Zealand approx mid (May/June) 1923...All as per original excepting the misfit side mirrrors and windwings . See the complete posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/50367.html?1205709920 which has some good photos of the wood that goes in the body also.
The high cowl cars were introduced in the USA during Calendar year 1923 but were called 1924 model year cars by Ford. As mentioned above I do NOT know what time they were introduced in Canada or New Zealand. Below is a photo posted by Chad of his 1924-25 high cowl touring that was cut off and made into a pickup.
Many Ts became pickups later on in their life. You probably do not see much difference in the low cowl vs high cowl car. Neither did I until I started looking at them and had people share information about them. The reason it is important to know, is some of the body panels do NOT just interchange between them even though they look very similar. [The doors will interchange 1915-1925.] So how do you tell the difference? Glad you asked. Please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/202420.html . Be sure to notice the corrections as you go further down the thread.]
As for the curved vs straight – it could be lots of different things. Bodies were built by owners, blacksmiths, and professional body makers for the Ts. They could work the windshield any way they wanted. Some of the English style Vans had a curved windshield at the cowl as well as the regular 1926-27 Model T cars.
Posting some photos will help. As you are loading the cars – takes lots of photos.
Also if you are using an open trailer – remember remove anything that can blow out of the cars such as seats, loose floorboards, etc.
Again welcome aboard and we look forward to seeing some photos of your finds. If you have troubles posting photos – it is usually because they are too large in file size. The file size needs to be about 195 kb or smaller. But below 100kb you cannot zoom in much to see details.
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I learned quite a bit from your history instruction -as usual. You wrote all that as I was still trying to wrap my mind around David driving for 6 hours on that tiny island. BTW, a fellow from N.Z. answered my Vintage Ford ad for a '14 wind"screen". So . . . a '14 Texas windshield should be the same as a '14 N.Z. windscreen ????
We all learn so much from each other and from folks sharing what they are discovering etc. Thank you and others for adding to what we know as well as encouraging so many of the other folks that they can "do it."
We (or at least I) have very little information documented on the Canadian cars and even less about the Canadian exports. But a 1914 New Zealand car would have used the same windshield as a 1914 Canadian car. And at least through 1915 they were shipping complete Ford cars in large crates to New Zealand. When they stopped doing that I'm not sure.
I am sure the windshield would fit and function ok, but I do not know if Ford of Canada used the same manufactures that the USA used or not. Also if it was exactly the same height or if it was a little shorter or taller than the USA style. In many cases such as Kelsey wheels, they had a Canadian plant producing basically the same loose lug demountable wheels for Ford of Canada that the USA Kelsey plant produced. But with a Made in Canada stamp. But for the windshields I do not know who manufactured the Canadian windshields in 1914. This is another one that if anyone has additional corrections or information it would be greatly appreciated.
And before I forget, if anyone would like a copy of Kevin Mowle’s excellent article about the 1920s Canadian Model Ts that appeared in the "Vintage Ford" a while back – just drop me a note and I will send you a free copy. The club allows us to do that to help promote our hobby, club, and to get more Fords back on the road. You can click on my name at the beginning of my posting and it brings up my profile. My e-mail address is the third line down. Please put Model T Ford or something similar in the subject and it will be read a lot sooner.
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Thank you very much guys for the help, when I get the cars I will post photos etc, then probably a thousand questions. I have just discovered a Man around the corner (We live 20 minutes out of town !) a few minutes away that has a brass T Van, very cool.