OT brought home some serious iron

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT brought home some serious iron
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 01:07 am:

A new project here at Rumble Seat Garage. Caterpillar sixty, been in my sister in law's family since new, in 1929. It is getting a valve job and work on the magneto and carb. Complaint is too hard to start with the prybar in the flywheel. 1100 inch displacement, weighs 20,500 lbs. This thing is a hoot to drive but has limited practical uses, not that such limitations have ever stopped me from bringing cool stuff home anyway. Just thought some of you would like to see it.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 01:30 am:

I love it! Been looking for an excuse to come down and bug you anyway.
Has this one been modified to run on some alternative fuel? My dad and I looked at a few Cat 60s many years ago and found that many of them had been. I do not remember what fuel they were modified for (seems like natural gas or something unusual), and my dad is not around to answer anymore if I ask him.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 02:22 am:

This one appears to have been modified, I understand for butane. It has two heads of one style and two of another, so something significant happened at one time or another. I believe alternative fuels required lower compression ratio. I have pulled the heads off and will tend to the valves. This may require some creativity, as the valve stems are 1/2" diameter, larger than the usual tooling I use. Everything about this tractor is big, it is the largest gasoline powered Caterpillar that was made. There were bigger ones made by Best and Holt prior to their merger that created Caterpillar. This particular sixty has a long family history, being used agriculture in the central valley before being converted to a logging cruiser in the 1950's by the Tomlinson brothers. It would have been grey when new but all the Tomlinson equipment was painted highway yellow. Watch for it at upcoming tractor events.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 03:08 am:

Good Grief !!!! Iron is an understatement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 04:55 am:

Butane may well be what he was talking about. I know that significant modification to the heads was necessary. He wanted to get one that was still set up as original but never found one he liked.
Thanks!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Weir on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 05:09 am:

Eric; If you live near the California Central coast, you may be interested in Paso Robles Pioneer Day parade. They Have a large contingent of antique tractors parading down the city streets.I haven't counted them but I would say there are some 50 -80 tractors in the parade.

Some are beautifully restored, as is the huge Holt steamer and some have many years of layer after layer of patina.

There are many old cars and trucks entered each year as well as my TT.

The parade is held in October near Columbus Day.

Sincerely

Jim Weir


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 07:51 am:

At 20,500 lbs wouldn't it mark up the asphalt with those tracks?

Also, just out of curiosity, what exactly could/would you use it for? Pulling a disabled tank? LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 10:21 am:

Eric:
Did that tractor originally have a canopy on it? A couple of the tractors that drive down the street on Pioneer Day have their original canopies on them. Complete with a nice array of holes made by the starting bar while trying to start the tractor. There are usually 2-3 75's 1-2 60's, a 45 and a couple of 30's. The reproduction steam tractor also usually makes an appearance.
You will need to put blocks on the shoes or run street pads to keep the grousers from tearing up the street.
I have seen photos of these big machines pulling early harveters and doing field work.

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 10:56 am:

I love the old crawlers! They are really something. I take it this one runs?

We had a Caterpillar 2 Ton on my grandfather's ranch back in the '50s and '60s. Of course it was much smaller (about 4,000 lbs. by definition), but it was about the same vintage, that model having been manufactured from about 1925 until about 1929.

Somewhere not long ago I saw a picture of one of the Gallo brothers (Gallo Winery) using a Cat 60 to prepare land for the planting of a vineyard in the 1930's. They are truly "serious iron", but they do have their uses.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 11:12 am:

Erik,Somewhere in my mind i rember seeing a picture of a sixty with a model A engine mounted for a starter! Hindsight is 20 20 and i sure miss my HD-21 with the 12-71 Detroit! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 11:33 am:

The tractor would have originally had a canopy with a corrugated steel roof. There is a tractor with the original canopy close by and I am going to make a copy. The support structure is all angle iron and I have some leftover Quonset hut parts that will be perfect for the roof.
Not going to use it for anything other than entertainment, unless the need arises to haul a cruise ship out of dry dock or something like that. I'd like to take it to a local tractor show where it last appeared almost twenty years back with the original owner's son, now deceased. The problem, of course, is that you don't just load it up on your model T trailer and take it places. Fortunately I have connections with people who can handle it.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 11:43 am:

First yellow one I've seen. The starting method for those has always struck me as pretty scary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 11:49 am:

Steve,
It was originally grey/black. The 60 will launch the starting bar like a javelin if something goes wrong. Folks have been killed by them. I don't let anyone stand in line with the flywheel when starting.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 12:09 pm:


I think this is about the right color. It seems they make pretty good John Deere starters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 04:07 pm:

I do not know why, but most of those I have seen have been yellow. I don't know what color they were originally. Most of the ones I have seen were scattered around Northern Califunny. Maybe it is a local thing.

My closest association with a large Caterpillar was with my grandfather when I aged in the single digits back in the '50s and early '60s.
Bud's comment about the model A engine reminds me of it. My grandfather was ready to buy a new Caterpillar (mid '50s). At that time, they used a pony engine (a small gasoline engine that first had to be started, then was engaged to the big engine to turn it over for starting). He had heard rumors that Caterpillar was going to begin offering electric start, so was thinking about waiting another year to buy. The local (Modesto CA) Caterpillar representative assured him that they would not be changing to electric start for several years at least. They claimed that they had gotten internal memos telling them so. So he went ahead and bought his new one. A few months later, and you can guess. He was mad at them for years after that and I don't think he bought much else from them again.
All his tractors are long-gone. I wish I could have almost any one of them. I do have some of the original servicing tools from the Caterpillar (Like the grease pump!)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 05:44 pm:

I have never seen a gasoline sixty with a starting pony engine. I don't see how one could be added. Some Cat sixties were converted to diesels, bringing in a new era in heavy equipment power. High compression diesels require a lot of power to crank, so the pony engine was introduced. It was a great system, really. No batteries required. I had a Cat RD-6 cable blade dozer. To start it, check all vital fluids and see that pony clutch is released. Choke the pony engine carb and crank. Repeat as necessary. When pony starts, allow it to warm up a minute. Then, see to it that the fuel lever is off and the compression relief is open on the diesel. Engage pony starter drive clutch and begin cranking the diesel. Observe oil pressure gauge on the diesel, verify oil pressure. Continue cranking, the pony exhaust is routed through the jacketed intake manifold to preheat the diesel intake. Then drop the compression release. Wait a few moments and advance the fuel lever. Don't expect immediate results when cold, these things like to crank a while. Long enough to burn down an electric starter and batteries. Presently you will see heavy smoke out the stack and it will blow huge smoke rings 20 or 30 feet up. Then it will rumble to life. Oh, the sound and fury of Cat diesel power. Disengage the pony clutch and shut it down. Then go and destroy whatever you point this thing at. There are YouTube videos if you want to see it happen.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 07:31 pm:

I just caught the end of the movie "Tulsa" (1949) staring Susan Hayward and Robert Preston. It's about the oil boom in Oklahoma. Near the end of the movie Robert Preston rescues Susan Hayward and another person from a raging oil well fire driving - you guessed it - a Cat 60!! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 07:34 pm:

It was just a picture in a book about Caterpillar and it showed some really strange equipment.I just spent about a hour looking but i can't find the book!I remember it because it had a Model A Ford engine mounted on it.How it was hooked i have no clue.A friend used to have a old D-6 with a pony and i think the exhaust from the pony was also used to help warm the diesel.Just because [we] have not seen it doe's not mean it did not exist!I had a org book for that HD-21P that said a non starter model could be bought!!! Sound's dumb but if you had 30 on a project you could have a couple with starters and bump start the rest! I miss Spooky Old Allis!! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lonnie Smith on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 08:17 pm:

What a beast, hard to hide that behind the shed and have it blend in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By daniel ryan on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 08:48 pm:

Erick, I use to own a 60 yours in great condition.The extension on frame below radiator is not original.The color was changed from gray to yellow Dec 1931.Their is serial number on frame,close to radiator on right side and a tag on back left housing plus stamped on below jugs.I have a book on gas eng Cats. Dan in MN 651 764 1540


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:00 pm:

Bud, there was a Cat D-9 at the end of Wall Road at the old coal mine near St. Charles. Old cable machine. Had a two cylinder pony engine. Dad and I used to cut oak firewood out of the piles he pushed up with it. Bill Surdock owned it, and everything there was flooded in 1986. The water was in the middle of the second floor of his house. He had a few '57 Chevies, Cushmans, old machinery. Very sad. At least it put out the underground fire in the mine that had been burning for decades. We used to go out there and drink beer in the winter time as teens. You could set your beer in the snow, and sit down on warm shale. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael R Beary on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:27 pm:

I have a 1951 2U D-8 that has the pony. We use it a lot on the farm. About a mile west of us a old thirty set in the brush for my first 45 years. It up and disappeared and no one in the neighborhood ever knew where it went. Eric, do you still machine hubs so AA wire wheels will fit on TT trucks? If so, please E-mail so we can arrange something. Thank you,Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:30 pm:

Daniel,
This one says engine number 7160. Can you give me a year from that number? I think it is the original engine, but I am told it was removed from the tractor for a time to power a sawmill. The modifications you pointed out on the frame extension cover the frame number.
I have little doubt that at some time somebody got tired of yanking on that pry bar to start their 60 and rigged up a starting engine. Seems like a model A engine would be a bit of overkill, since it is twice the size of the ponies used to start Cat diesels, but whatever was available was used I expect. Would like to see that picture when you find it.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:33 pm:

Ed,it's been over 40 years but a few of us used to ride motorcycles at the coal mine but i never saw the 9 or smoke from the fire? There is a ditch running through our farm that was 500' wide with water standing on sand in 1986.The DNR used to have old Cats to work on the dikes out there.The HD-21 i had was cable and i replaced it many times! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:36 pm:

Ed,it's been over 40 years but a few of us used to ride motorcycles at the coal mine but i never saw the 9 or smoke from the fire? There is a ditch running through our farm that was 500' wide with water standing on sand in 1986.The DNR used to have old Cats to work on the dikes out there.The HD-21 i had was cable and i replaced it many times! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:18 am:

Which Cats used a crank through the hood to start a side-mounted pony engine? I remember working on one decades ago. I believe it was an early D8 but thats all I recall. A neighbor still has a 4 cyl RD-6 that has a crank that goes into the right lower corner of the rad and reaches back to a side mounted pony motor.

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 01:19 am:

Bill, series 3T D7 Cats used a top mounted crank like that for starting the pony motor. In a former life, I used to run one, along with a few other assorted Cat dozers. I broke my watch crystal and nearly my wrist one time trying to crank it. It was notorious for kicking back. I went straight back to the shop and told the boss in no uncertain terms what he could do with that D7 if he didn't put a starter on it. I had been after him for months to do that, but there was never enough time. It was on there the next day. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 01:21 am:

We put a starter on the pony motor, not the diesel, just to clarify. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 03:56 am:

It may be difficult to determine exactly the year it was produced.. From one article: http://www.gasenginemagazine.com/tractors/caterpillar-model-sixty.aspx?PageId=1

"The subject of this article is Caterpillar Model Sixty serial number PA 6330. The age of this tractor has been identified as 1928,1929, and 1930 by different serial number lists. I usually identify it as a 1930, but take your choice."


From another book, http://books.google.se/books?id=pTvLXD25AbQC :

"The Caterpillar Sixty was originally introduced for sale beginning in 1919 as the C. L. Best 60 Tracklayer, manufactured by the C. L. Best Tractor Company. The Best 60 was the most successful tractor in the Best model line. After the 1925 merger of the C. L. Best Tractor Company and the Holt Manufacturing Company that formed the Caterpillar Tractor Company, the Best 60 was renamed the Caterpillar Sixty

Caterpillar produced model Sixty tractors in San Leandro, California through 1930 and in Peoria, Illinois through 1931. In total, 18,948 C. L. Best 60 Tracklayer/Caterpillar Sixty tractors were manufactured during twelve years of production."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By daniel ryan on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 07:17 am:

Erick. Your 60 was built in 1929 in Peoria Ill. My wish list is to a Best 60 They have brass and are blue and with Some red.They are rare and $40,000. to $50,000 range.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 09:19 am:

I've got its "tiny" cousin. A 1956 JD-420C. It's still a workhorse around here. It started life as a pipe layer but I use it to maintain a 1/4 mile driveway and moving equipment round. It's good for keeping the cactus under control too. The street cleats don't tear-up the ground unless I spin it in a circle.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:33 pm:

Now that you have a serious piece of Yellow Iron, I would suggest a membership in ACMOC (Antique Caterpillar Machinery owners Club) <www.acmoc.org> Lots to see and learn there!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:48 pm:

I forgot to mention that Don Hunter the builder of the Holt Steamer passed away last October at age 84. The recent ACMOC magazine tells the story of Don's passion to build a reproduction of the Holt steamer since none exist today.

T owners would not be surprised to learn that starting a Holt with a bar is akin to a free start...


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