80 year old brothers found dead, Auto related.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 80 year old brothers found dead, Auto related.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 06:35 pm:

I just heard on the news that last night two 80 year old brothers were found dead in there garage from carbon monoxide when working on an antique car.
One report said a 1910 antique. this was in Chelais Washington. Anyone in the area know the gentleman, no names were given.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 06:53 pm:

It was the pair of twins that we always see at swap meets.
One is named Walt and I can't remember the other's name.
Really nice friendly guys.
Mostly into Dodges I think.
What a tragedy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 07:14 pm:

By Sharyn L. Decker
Lewis County Sirens news reporter

CHEHALIS – Two elderly twin brothers died last night of apparent carbon monoxide poisoning from working on a vehicle inside a garage south of Chehalis.

The wife of one of them returned home from a neighbor’s, found the men lying unconscious on the floor inside the garage and called 911, according to the Lewis County Sheriff’s Office.

The men were twins, 80 years old. One was visiting from Rainier, Washington, according to the sheriff’s office.

Aid responding about 6:15 p.m. to the 100 block of Ironwood Court transported William Schofield of Chehalis to Providence Centralia Hospital where he was pronounced dead. His brother was taken there as well and then transported to Virginia Mason Hospital in Seattle where he passed away about 3:15 a.m. today, according to authorities.

They had been working on the exhaust manifold of an antique car, Chief Civil Deputy Stacy Brown said. Responders said all the doors were closed.

Detectors indicated high levels of carbon monoxide inside, Brown said in a news release this morning.

Lewis County Sheriff Steve Mansfield issued a statement saying how tragic and sad the incident was, urging the public to purchase and use inexpensive carbon monoxide alarms.

“These brothers were simply working on a car together and ended up dying from a silent killer,” Mansfield stated in the news release.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 07:21 pm:

How sad.

: ^ (

I have a carbon monoxide detector in my shop.

If you don't have one, get one!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:12 pm:

The newspaper tells people to buy an alarm. Instead of an alarm why not open a door when running an engine indoors? i do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:42 pm:

Teresa's aunt and uncle got ill while running a generator in their garage when the electricity went out. The attached garage door was open a foot to ventilate. A 9 year old grandson came over as they had heat and electricity and noticed they were groggy and complained of headaches so he called 911. He had apparently heard of it from school. I don't know how much you have to open the door, or the effect of wind direction on ventilation. A detector is worth having in the garage and in the home.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Monday, February 24, 2014 - 09:50 pm:

Their names are Walt and Bill Scofield Scofield, They were really good people. I were inseparable twins, they did everything together. So much more... I will miss them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Eliason on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:14 am:

This is a terrible accident, and our hearts go out to their family and friends. Most of us have probably heard of similar incidents before, but may not realize how easily it can happen.

I have been a safety monitor when my employer had the need to run gasoline powered equipment inside buildings. We used very large fans to provide positive-pressure ventilation and industrial carbon monoxide (CO) and multi-gas detectors to monitor the air.

Even in a simple room (such as a garage) it can take an amazing amount of air movement to keep the CO down to a safe level when an engine is running. Those of us working on these projects found that we started out severely underestimating the amount of ventilation required.

Residential CO detectors in your house and garage may give the only warning of dangerous CO levels. Test them and change the batteries like the instructions tell you to.

While carbon monoxide is quickly toxic at high levels, it is also a cumulative poison, meaning the concentration in your blood can accumulate to dangerous levels over time, through repeated exposures to lower levels that by themselves may not be an immediate hazard.

There are real challenges working on cars and equipment in cold climates, and it may be difficult or impossible to keep a comfortable AND safe environment if you run engines indoors. Just opening a side door or partially opening an overhead door is not enough, you need serious air movement.

Please be extra careful. I'm sure we'd all rather never hear about this kind of tragedy again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:21 am:

Walt was up to my shop a month ago buying some new tires & tubes for one of the T's he was working on - heck of a nice guy - never met his twin brother - tragic, for sure !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:31 am:

This danger has been well known for a long time. I've seen pictures of auto shops in the thirties where they had flexible metal hoses attached to automobile exhaust pipes to carry the fumes outside. I wouldn't run a car in a closed building without that kind of precaution.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 12:33 am:

Wow very ironic two twin brothers came into this ol’world on same day,then both of them leaving it on the same day....What’s the chance…? Sounds like they were close as most twins are.
On the bright side if there is one in this case, it appears they left here together doing something they both loved…
Working on Old cars! You gott’a respect that…..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 09:21 am:

My prayers go out to their families. What a shame. Like Steve said, at least they went out doing what they like to do best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 11:32 am:

I don't need a carbon monoxide detector.
I have half a brain. I ALWAYS open the doors before I start an engine in a building. It is stupid to run an engine in a closed room. It rates right up there with drinking a glass of water with a spoonful of gasoline in it.

Steve mentions the exhaust hoses that go out the door. When did they stop using them? You mean the garages I worked in in Wisconsin and Minnesota in the fifties and sixties stopped using them?
We always figured after a couple of minutes we needed to open a door anyway as hydrocarbons coming out the breather pipe were bad to breath too.
Even if you are not overcome by exhaust fumes you will still have damage to yourself from breathing that crap.
I have one of those hoses right now. I loaded it in my van last night to use on a car we may run today in Oakland with the shop open. It directs the main mass of exhaust out the door instead of filling the building....why do we even need to talk about it?
Everyone knows the fumes can kill you.
so at what point is there no harm in breathing them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 11:55 am:

This was certainly an avoidable tragedy. What a shame.

About 20 years ago I built a garage facility for around 30 school busses and another 25 or so miscellaneous vehicles. An exhaust gas evacuation system was a requirement. It consisted of a hose at each bay that simply went over the exhaust pipe. Each had a sort of spring loaded flap so the unused stations did't discharge exhaust where it wasn't wanted. The common tube they all connected to had a fan that literally sucked the exhaust out and discharged it outside. Any mechanic found with a running engine in the shop without the system in use was subject to disciplinary action.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 01:36 pm:

wow,....I knew both of these men.They were friends. I was not there so I don't know all the facts. but please show some respect, They may have made a mistake, I believe there is a lesson to be learned here. But making a examble of them and what not to do with all of us greving the loss of not one but two of our friends just does not feel right. I'm having a hard time understanding what happened too. Please give it some time before passing judgement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 02:37 pm:

Sometimes you get so carried away you don't realize how bad the air has gotten...


That's me kneeling down, playing with the carb.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 02:47 pm:

Jerry that photo is probably true for every T owner after their rebuild and more true for any old car owner who has spent time in the garage with their car/s.
Maybe the idea of co meters is well worth a posting showing all of the types available and their costs.
Safety is paramount, not only on the roads, but also in the garage( where most old car accidents actually occur ).

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 05:55 pm:

One Christmas, about 20 years ago, my son gave me a 10' flexible rubber exhaust hose, I use it any time I run an engine in the shop, doors open or closed. Any time the hose is stuck out the door, the door has to be open about 3" anyways for the hose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - 10:31 pm:

This is for people who have never visited a dealer's repair shop in the northern states.
Usually the cars being worked on are lined up facing the walls.
Behind each row of cars there is a gutter in the floor much like in a dairy barn.
The main difference is that a metal plate covers the gutters in the repair shops.
There are holes in the plates, usually two behind each car, to put the flexible exhaust hose into.
At one end of the gutter there is a duct going up the wall to a fan that is keeping a slight vacuum on the gutters.
In small shops like a gas station repair/service bay there is just a round hole in the doors to put the exhaust hose through.
Same for shops like a Midas Muffler shop, or a tire store.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 01:56 am:

Dangerous gasses can be any where a fellow I new was cleaning his septic tank with an external air supply, he shut the fan off and went for supplies, returned and determined the tank was clear of methane entered the tank with out the fan in operation and was overcome and died he was 40 years old.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 11:59 am:

On Long Island about a week ago there was a carbon monoxide leak (probably from a furnace) in the basement of a well known restaurant. 27 were hospitalized and the manager was found in the basement dead. The powers that be are enacting laws requiring co2 monitors in eateries.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 01:26 pm:

In the Navy even when we opened sealed rooms they were vented for 24 hours then test for oxygen content before we could enter to work and even then we had to have positive ventilation. My point is this the lack of oxygen weather displaced by a deadly gas or used up by some other means is quick and deadly please use BIG FANS.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Mullis on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 06:12 pm:

Almost the same thing happened to my brother-in-law 20 years ago.

In my brother-in-law's case:
(1)It wasn't an accident and...
(2)the cars (two) weren't antiques.

The result, however, was the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eddy Lee Emerson on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 06:16 pm:

Waddell & Child, the Ford dealers in Great Bend , Kansas gave away a plaque to be nailed on the garage door , which read. "Do not run the motor of your car in this garage with this door closed. To do so might cause death from Carbon Monoxide Poisoning. FIRST AID FOR CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING: Get person to fresh air immediately (not too cold). Start artificial respiration. Call doctor instructing him to bring an oxygen tank." Ed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 09:40 pm:

I mentioned this to a friend that is a nurse and she said it may have been planned as they didn't want to grow older and be a burden to anyone and being mechanically inclined they knew this would happen.
And I thought about it,ok they were working on a exhaust manifold.Once you find a leak on a exhaust manifold you cut the car off and let it cool down enough so you can work on it.For enough exhaust to come out to KILL 2 people,they had to stand over it quite a while fiddling with it if it was a accident.
NO one that works on engines has'nt heard of carbon monoxide poisoning.I suffered it to a point I went to the doctor because of it coming from my work truck exhaust right where I had to stand to do my job at the back and side of the truck.
They moved the exhaust pipes to discharge on the other side.


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