Has there ever been discussion of upgrading the MTFCA forums to use a different underlying software? One of the biggest problems I see in the current setup is the inability to page. The huge number of postings in a single HTML page will crash (or freeze up) some browsers.
Two of my favorite forum sites both run software called vBulletin. You can see how nice this software is by looking through these forums:
I don't have any connection to vBulletin, by the way. I just know I like these two forum sites and how they work.
Uh Oh, time for the asbestos underwear.
I use a couple sites with that soft ware. Have to wait 20 seconds for this ,120 seconds for that.
Have to scan all the forums to read recent posting of intrest and so on.Usable,but nothing as simple as this.
To quote one of my favorite comedians, Phil Hartman, "I'm just a simple caveman. Your modern ways frighten me."
Yes, there's been lots of discussion. When the MTFCI forum recently changed from this same format to the latest version of V Bulletin there were enough bugs in it to make the changeover a hassle that turned off a lot of folks who tried it. The MTFCI webmaster then went to an earlier version of V Bulletin which works fine for most folks, but the difficulty brought about by the initial change to the latest version scared off some people.
A lot of the regulars here are of a conservative nature, uncomfortable with change, and a lot are also old enough to be uncomfortable with modern technology. Others are not bothered by change or technology, but just prefer this format. Either way, some of the forum members really hate the idea of seeing this format go away.
But it's going to happen, because this software is no longer supported by its maker, and one of these days there will be no choice but a switch to V Bulletin or some other format. It won't bother me, because I use the Ford Barn Model T forum, the MTFCI forum, and this one with no difficulty. In fact the other two have the advantage of allowing me to edit my dumb mistakes.
I forgot to mention that some folks in rural areas are stuck with dial-up, and this old format works best for them.
I totally agree vBulletin is easier to use and better in every imaginable way. The problem is resistance to change.
Doesn't vBulletin use phosphor bronze main bearings?
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
Thanks for the history, Steve. I had a feeling this topic has been discussed before. I tried searching the forums for vBulletin earlier today but got an error That's what prompted the new topic. I seem to get searches to come back only about half the time. I'm not sure if that's a problem with the current software or my browser or what.
I'm going to stay out of this one.
Jerry....I loved that Phil Hartmann character.
The search function sometimes doesn't. I often use Google. I just type mtfca: followed by whatever I want to find.
Here comes the pitchfork and torch brigade!
I had a web designer build the forum for my website and I love it. Simple, easy to use and users can edit their entries.
I would have had a couple of things different in it but I was trying to keep the overall cost down.
I'm not sure what this part of the web site cost, but the entire site was less than $6,000 to build.
For cryn' out loud guys go to these sites and learn the systems! You do you think I am Steve Jobs or some computer geek? If I can do it you can too. Trial and error. No charge for mistakes either. Just go there and learn. To you guys on dial-up: wether it's your only choice or you can't or refuse to change for whatever reason it's still going to take you a while to post/add pics, whatever. That can't be changed but this site probably will and you'll all be better off knowing what's in store.
"I totally agree vbulletin is easier to use and better in every imaginable way. The problem is Resistance to change".
Royce, please read the last sentence of your quote out loud to yourself!
My personal opinion is the format on Ford barn and the MTFCI is just about as screwed up as you can make it. If this forum changes to that,I probably won't go with it.
Please No Change. HUGH Me no understand modern stuff.
C'mon totally screwed up? Really? I've been on the Barn for years. At least as long as I've been here and there's nothing wrong with it. It's different. That's all. As to the MTFCI site: I went through the trials as many others did and it works too. Now. They made a poor choice at first but hey, "stuff happens".
If some one is going to refuse to learn a new set-up, well, I guess you will be out if it comes here.
I think your Correct Charlie B, I'm out of here if it changes to the other system, I'm not a Computer GEEK and I am tired of them wanting to play chess with the systems. I don't have time or desire to change just to please the Geeks and there followers that want us to. I put them in the same category as the spammers. Just remember "If its not broken don't fix it, if you fix it you've broken it for some people."
But Bob, the only person you have to please is your self. It's not geeks or any one person pulling strings behind a curtain causing these changes. The fact is that nothing changes faster than this computer based technology and it's speed that's king. Do you remember having to type in DOS commands? I don't want to go back there. Not after the changes I've seen so far. Is it all good? Hell no. But it's here to stay and I say if you're still capable of learning some thing new it's to your advantage to do so. I've had computers since the late 80's and believe me if I've gotten 25% of any of those machines capabilities it was a lot. It's not hard and it doesn't take much time. I guarantee once you master it with full size picture posting and editing you'll be saying I miss the old Forum but this is better than nothing. Give it a shot.
Ford Barn site has been screwed up ever since the Hot Rod people took it over. You can no longer post a reply to any ad,must send a private message. Pictures are generally not easy to do. This site has really allowed itself to degrade with all the Non-T OT's . A lot of the old guys have already left..
Ford barn. More like Ford shack. Gave up on that after a few tries. Cumbersome. Hides pictures unless you are logged in. Same on sending messages. Gave up on MTFCI site after change. I won't go back. Kinda soured me; I don't even look forward to the magazine as much any more. Sure hope that same doesn't happen here. Lots of nice people on this forum and great information. Postings are concise and not strung out like the VB mess. If I print off a thread from VB it takes twice the paper.
Sorry, I feel better now. :>)
I have been a visitor to the iboats forums for many years. If you go to that site, you'll see that the "Boat Topics and Questions (not engine topics)" has 499,000 postings. That is a lot of postings. If you go into it, it only shows you PAGE 1 of the postings (not all 499,000 of them). That's how it should work.
Plus...if our current forum search doesn't work, we're losing the most most valuable feature of a forum.
Yea , hiding stuff from non logged in people is a real turn off.And not being able to link a page from 1 of those other forums to a thread is aggravating to.
Most sites that use that vbulliten format tend to be hoggish with the info.Which is not helpful to the hobby.
The operation and general mindset of this forum is what the hobby needs.A newbie can locate a thread with google and read it and see pics and all.And register easy and join in the fun.
To me , some of the other sites are screwed up as football bats and whoever writes software needs to come back to something simple like this.
I think it all has to do with the software setup (and website setup). iboats does not hide anything for non logged in users and it is readily searchable by google.
Google the following and you will find several topics in their forums (even though you are not a user):
mercruiser 3.0 tuneup site:forums.iboats.com
I think I'm fairly computer literate--not savy, just literate!--and the other forum does not work with dial up!
It is frustrating that the folks that invent this stuff and sell it, require you to upgrade to all the latest "bells & whistles" that they like. To increase sales, and provide profitability, change must happen, and be non-retroactive.
Brian Holcomb, I am still laughing at your post! I love it. Dave
I can and do use the other sites. I don't like them. I like this one. I did for many years earn a living on cutting edge technology much of the time.
The biggest problem with computers is that most "computer people" grew up wasting half their childhood playing Stupid Mario Brothers. They think everyone likes punching all over the screen trying to find the hidden powers! (Most people do not) They think everyone sits around for days with their lives on hold waiting for the newest version of everything to come out next month! (Most people do have other things to do) They think the whole world revolves around them and their little friends in their imaginary world! (Get a life) And they don't care if you live where only dial-up is available. (Take your vast fortune and move to where better service is, after all, that should be your highest priority)
Computers are incredible tools. Wonderful research, games, communication, and entertainment, all at your fingertips. If it works.
I like this site. My screen is filled with communication, text and pictures. NO glitz. No funky colors I don't like. No half the screen taken up with sides taken over with ads, pop-ups, doodles or any other stupid thing someone can think of to try to waste MY time with. Also no lousy pastel backgrounds with nasty contrast issues making it difficult to read. I hate Yahoo! Thousands of people want their old Yahoo classic back, but they don't care. "THEY" are "Computer People". They think ALL change is wonderful!
I know the time is limited, probably growing short for this format for reasons I have stated in other threads. Primarily the reason that this basic program is no longer supported and not as compatible to the world (wide web) around it as it really needs to be.
SO, I will continue to enjoy this format on this site, as long as I can. I will continue to thank Chris B profusely as long as he continues to put up with us and keep this site working )THANK YOU CHRIS!!!!!!). If Chris decides that he can no longer do it, whether he leaves (I certainly hope not), or changes the format. I will forgive him and thank him again. Like I said. I used to work in cutting edge technology. I know what is involve in it.
Again, Chris, thank you.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I agree totally with your comments. You said it much better than I could. I also thank Chris for all his efforts. Must be really trying at times.
I've found whenever I tried to use cutting edge technology I always came away badly bleeding or brain dead. I built analog commuters when I was in high school (1960s) but what we have now leaves me cold. I don't have time to mess with it. This is the only site I participate in. I'd rather be somewhat productive and enjoy the years I have left. I'm leaving again now. :-)
David, I'm only here to help!
Personally I don't care which format this site uses. I use them all and are comfortable with each. They all have their +'s and -'s. But for those that are saying that "a lot of the old guys have already left", well a lot of you old guys are, by natural causes. Sorry to be blunt, but if you desire to bring fresh blood into the group, you'll need to stay somewhat current with the internet technology they are familiar with. Change happens constantly, within and around us. On that same token, I also thank Chris for his efforts.
Yea, Yahoo has ruined a good thing with their sites.I am a member of several yahoo sites and they have basically went away to nothing.And I used 1 alot for info and such.
Dang shame these geeks are allowed to rule us like they do by forcing this new tech on us.
It is my opionion We as consumers and users should be the 1's deciding which software we want to use on computers and we should be the 1's deciding when we want to upgrade.After all it is our money that feeds them.Why is XP be dropped for example?To force purchase of new,lesser quality, shorter lifetime equipment.Not because it doesn't work.
Alot of it is people are conditioned to think change is inevitable and must happen.If this software for example was still supported by it's author,we could use it for the next 43 years. But they abandon it on purpose,to force change,not because it has to happen but because they want it to happen.
Don't much care for the Yahoo based site I'm involved with either. Not my lack of understanding. It's just trash. You want difficult? Just try it. There appears to be, (I'm guessing a bit now), 2 sites that this Forum could change to: Barn & MTFCI. In an attempt to get back to the original question which would you prefer? I'm with Barn myself. The MFTCI site is second and Yahoo is right out.
I like to compare this to the Model T and all of the entrepreneur that made the accessories in the day, you could by one ,try it and if it didn't work as you liked you could go back to Henrys way. No harm no foul. But in todays world it seams that I created it,you use it and like it. There is no going back.
I also want to thank Chris for all his hard work keeping this system simple and running great.
Dennis H. Do you have any extra BAND AIDS to spare.
PS I agree that YAHOO messed up my confuser. (No error in spelling)
Test. For months not being able to post I guess its now possible! I think my email is wrong but we shall see.
If and when the change comes here, I'd go with the MTFCI set-up. I find posting pictures there a little more to my liking than Ford Barn.
Can you imagine what happened when someone that had only driven a Model T was confronted with a Model A?
That pedal on the left disengages the driveline??
The right pedal doesn't apply the brakes?
What's that big stick coming out of the floor supposed to do?
At least it has the lever for the gas and spark - but what is that little button on the floor for?
Brakes on the front wheels! Is someone crazy?
Why can't I hear the coils buzzing?
Sorry. I'm fresh out of band aids. In extremis I've taken to using small towels. :-) Seriously, part of the issue I have with the "information age" (at least psychologically) is how much effort & time must I put in to get a reasonable return. I'd rather work on T stuff, wood working and many of my other activities than plod through poorly designed technology that is forced on us.
By the way, I admire all your efforts restoring your snowmobile projects. I'm sure they took an excess of time and skills to complete but the return is the satisfaction of a job well accomplished and simply the enjoyment of doing it. Priceless.
I would be okay with going to VBulletin. But the problem with a lot of the sites that use it is that they split it up into 10 or more mini-forums based on what topic your post falls under. For example, on for T's there could be "Technical Help", "Speedsters", "Historical Research", "Clubs and Tours", etc.
I do not like this because some forums get neglected, others get lots of attention. And I have to check 10 forums instead of one
The current setup allows a "natural order" to take effect. The posts people like stay at the top, the others drift towards the bottom after one or two answers.
If we went to VBulletin or some other platform, I suggest keeping it to one main forum, and maybe one other for posting of Model T related events (shows, tours, etc.)
I think we should go back to carrier pigeons.
As an IT professional since 1962, I totally agree with Wayne. Sometimes change is not for the better...
I agree with everything Wayne had to say.
I'm fairly new to this whole Model T thing and fairly new to this site.
I like this site, and it has nothing to do with the format. It has everything to do with the people (all of you) who contribute to educate people like me. All of you (and hopefully me someday) are what will keep the Model T think strong for future discoverers.
Unfortunately with software, sometimes as equipment and operating systems change, certain software will no longer work. It sounds like this will soon be the case with what is used here.
Itís not necessarily the fault of the software which makes it hard to use, or be something we donít like, but a fault in the way it is implemented. For example:
Some sites wonít let you see pictures if youíre not logged in, others will.
Some sites have adds to help with their costs, some donít at all, and some donít if youíre logged in.
Some sites have lots of subcategories, some only have a few. This site has a different category for each year.
Some sites have terrible color choices making it difficult to read, others have great color choices.
Hereís a site I frequent which to me has good colors and I like the way they laid it out; http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/
Hereís another site which to me only has okay colors but I like the way they laid it out; http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php
The MTFCI site doesnít appeal to me because I donít think they did a good job with their categories or colors.
On the Ford Barn site, I donít like the colors but their categories are kind of what a lot of you seem to like, one category for all stuff Model T and an archive for old Model T stuff (Iím ignoring the other categories which donít apply to us). I also like the separate for sale and wanted categories. I think this would help all with the spam and other problems our classified listings seem to have.
We all have likes and dislikes, why donít we take time to suggest what we would like to see and then the forum master can try to implement our desires.
As a start I will suggest;
Have to login to post. This gives the moderators a chance to control things if needed.
No login needed to visit and view everything.
No ads of any kind.
At a minimum, sub categories by year (as it is now), but would prefer a few categories to help with separating, posting and finding specific topics. Such as; engines/drivetrain, chassis, body, etc.
I donít believe any of us are incapable of learning something new, we just have to be open to it and give it a try.
Thanks again to all of you for all the knowledge you share!