Here is what it's like in our neck of the woods this morning. Our thermometer had no mercury rising out of the bulb. The lowest number is -30, and it was well below that. A friend 3 miles east had -41.
Just realized I neglected to label this "Off Topic" My apologies to any whom I may offend.
It's almost March!
Challenging times are coming. When Calif can no longer grow half the nation's produce, and corn is flooded/frozen into oblivion, lots of people will be made poor, and starve.
We're finally getting a little rain.
Ed, it's not off topic. This is why my T is still in the shop and not on the road. It was 4* yesterday morning here. PK
ED,Your the winner! We only went to -18! Bud in Wheeler.
Call me " Rainman "
I take full credit for bring the rain with
me to California ....
Drought, then floods in Califunny; Tornados in the Midwest and deep south; subzero temps and enough snow and ice melt to cause flooding all across the north. Makes me think I can put up with an once in a decade Gulf hurricane here in Texas.
Makes me think maybe we better be reading the Bible!
Its later than we think.
The Bible didn't tell us to burn all those carbon fuels.
The climate scientists are conservative in their estimates, and it is indeed later than we think. By the time societies break down and stop burning so much carbon, it will probably be too late for human survival.
Global warming is BS, and by the way there is no tooth fairy either!!
Did you see where the co-founder of Greenpeace said that man made global warming is a farce. He left the group in 1986 (?) because it was becoming to political.
When I was a younger man the climate scientists were predicting a coming ice age. That also was based upon scientific facts being measured extremely accurately and without any doubt whatsoever. I like to think I am a scientist too but the sample time is so short in geologic time that I think it is impossible for us to figure out what might be going on in geologic time with such a short sample as even any person's full life time. The part I have never understood is that the EPA has closed the last primary lead smelter in the USA as of Dec 2013 so from now on all lead will likely be smelted only in China so is China then on a different planet than we are? Is China or other planet air different than USA air or is it that we figure all the "dirty stuff" will then settle in their country and not be shipped here on the goods we buy from them. What happens when their economy passes us up and they then start to make a colony out of us since we are essentially now starting to lay down our arms. Won't they then move those "dirty operations" over here? I am glad I am 70.
I recently saw a program on China's pollution problem. I believe that what will happen with their industrial pollution problems will make our problems look like a drop in the ocean. It is really disturbing that the scientists are showing that the pollution is traveling across the Pacific and ends up at the US west coast. By the way, happy birthday, John.............
Our "Emperor in Chief" has new clothes!
Our local news has been flooded with info about about a coal ash spill in the dan river by Duke energy's plant near it.Oh it is a terrible thing no doubt.
But the radiation from Japans broken and leaking nuclear plant has hit califunny and the snow in the mid west already has twice the radiation it once did.But have we heard about it lately? No.
The Japanese are being forced to farm the affected land in japan and grow food on it. The farmers refuse to eat their own food.Does that give you some idea of what we are getting over here?And the stuff from china has to swim or fly right over all that radiation to get here.We are doomed.
God forbid another volcano eruption.They tend to erase all human efforts to clean the air,in mere seconds.
"since we are essentially now starting to lay down our arms."
Yeh, we really need the 3,000 new tanks we have in the desert. The US mil. budget has more than doubled since 2000. We spend more on our military than the next 12 nations - combined.
The eventual cost of the optional wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are now estimated to cost between four and five Trillion dollars.
The F-35 alone will cost $1.5 Trillion: 10% of our national debt. Its software is 8 years behind, but is forgotten in the 3 month lag of Obamacare enrollment.
The US military is Socialism on Steroids.
The trees in Petrified Forest which is located in what is now a desert in Arizona are the same kind now found only in the southern hemisphere. The wooly mammoths frozen in the north icecap lived in warmer climates and were suddenly frozen. The dinosaurs buried in Utah and Wyoming were preserved as fossels. I could go on and on.
There have been many cataclysmic changes in Earth's climate in the past, and very unlikely man made. A few degrees difference in temperature which might be caused by man is nothing compared to what has happened in the past.
I am old enough to remember when similar changes as are occuring today took place. Some winters are warmer, some colder. Some wetter, some drier. Does anyone remember the days of the dust bowl?
The only thing constant is that changes will take place.
It got so cold here in Ohio that I put out a pot of boiling water and it froze so fast that the ice was still warm....Pretty cold, right? Paul
With little more than 150 years of climate data on hand compared to the age of the earth it seems crazy to believe we have enough data to declare what is coming. The previously mentioned claim that our fate was headed in the other direction 50 years ago tends to prove the "experts" are for the most part politically motivated.
I look at the whole climate change thing like this, suppose you had a 55 inch tv with all but one pixel not working. There is no way you will be able to tell from that picture what is going on. Kind of like 150 years worth of data compared to 5 billion years. Same effect.
Raw data can be manipulated to say what ever outcome you want it to. If you inventory every refrigerator in the US and found insulin in 6% of them and then asked if someone in the house was diabetic you could use the "data" to support the theory that storing insulin in the fridge causes diabetes.
Whether we use my example or global warming, both arguments are ridiculous.
I have all of you beat as last night in Winnipeg it was -51 with the wind chill and at -51 the temperature scale does not mater. Cheers Colin
Guys. I didn't post this to fan the flames of "climate change". I thought some of you in warmer parts of the world would like to see what it was like in northern Michigan yesterday. Sheesh.
Its 40 here in NW Oregon with no snow or ice for weeks not much change from the past.
The news this morning listed the ten most contaminated air areas. Most were in the California valley to LA and SD.
What I don't under stand is why not spend a billion dollars on trains carrying water from the Columbia south rather then spending that money with an executive order on a global warming study no one will agree on. There is a ton of water coming down that river five miles across where I live.
As you may know, Paul, I grew up in Oregon, and left right out of high school. My parents lived in Oregon from 1933 on, and adopted Oregon.
About 1984 was one of California's dry years, and there were ideas to send water south from Oregon. "California can't have our water," was my Mom's position when I was there visiting.
I said, "Even water barged from the lower Columbia where it just dumps into the ocean?"
"California can't have our water!"
"OK" I said, "How about we send a million people up here to drink it directly?"
End of argument.
It was prophetic in that a large migration north started just a couple of years later.
We have a lot of water here in fly over country,but the people in Canada and New York want the power it makes.Bud in Wheeler.
Scientists are making the predictions of CO2 contribution to global warming; not politicians. The science has progressed a lot in the last 50 years since 1964. Who heard of computer modeling 50 years ago? How many ice cores were they taking 50 years ago? How sophisticated were the weather satellites 50 years ago? How many places were they measuring ocean temperatures 50 years ago, compared to today?
Which analysis would you rather trust; the one that is up to date, or the one that fits your beliefs?
The total CO2 dumped into the air can be calculated, and its effects modeled. It's science, not politics.
Should read "some scientist" because it is pretty evenly split. Volcanic activity, natural fires, rotting plant life, oceanic activity, etc., creates more co2 than man.
Since you place so much faith in science, what are they saying about how quickly we could cool if we outlawed all carbon production. They can't really ring the bell without accurately telling us how quickly it can be reversed. The truth is they don't know even though they are making claims that they hold all the answers.
97-3% evenly split?
CO2 is increasing the rate of warming.
A real scientist does not claim to hold all the answers. That's a ridiculous claim.
BTW, you get more real news in six minutes from Jon Stewart's Daily Show on Comedy Channel, than all day on Faux News, which is entertainment disguised as news.
The 97 percent is widely disputed. The majority may agree that warming is occurring but they are split over mans contribution to it.
Mans contribution to CO2 isn't as significant as many claim.
Faux news? Really? You want to make the character assassination that anyone that disagrees the 97% is some sort of Neanderthal that is incapable of research and reading anything other? Nice. Class act.
it was so cold in st louis, i saw a politician with his hands in his own pockets
What vanity! All the little piss ants running around the planet believe that they somehow control what happens to the universe.
How many Ford excursions does it take to put out as much pollution as the Mt. St. Helens eruption?
Mike Dixon, you changed that joke. It originally went, "it was so cold, I saw a Democrat with his hands in his own pockets."
Hey Ralph - this nation also asks more of its military than the next 12 nations combined. Might want to remember that my friend before you collectively insult the men and women who dedicate their lives to the security of this country by referring to the US military as "socialism on steroids."
BTW your right to spout such idiotic nonsense as a free citizen has been defended for the last 200+ years by that same institution. You're welcome.
I am sure Humans aint helping matters.We breed cows that fart and pollute.We should be wearing fart filters and all animals should be fitted with them as well.
What makes me laugh is ships going across the ocean have holding tanks for the human poop.But the sea life is just pooping in the water and going on about their business.
All the pollution in the world human made is not comparable to the damage radiation is doing and going to do.But none of the coal haters will bat a eye at that.It hurts their agenda
Wind farm's,They send me money!! Bud in Wheeler.
Watched that eruption for weeks after the start just above my home in Portland Chuck.
If you mowed your lawn with a sharp blade it would have a nice polished round where it was sharp. Flew over it a few years past with Michael Seager. unbelievable how much material is gone
Makes you wonder what kind of abrasive I was breathing.
I did some googleing and found 1 artical that talks about 1 volcano-releases-one-trillion-cow-farts-into-atmosphere.
Hum.Udderly great news.We can collect cow gas and heat our homes and fuel our cars! :>)
I served my two years as a draftee, Ron, thanks. I didn't say people living under socialism are bad. The system has been perverted. The big money goes to the contractors, as we were warned by Pres. Eisenhower in 1960. He called it the Military-Industrial Complex. Now it's the Military-Industrial-Security Complex.
Our actions in the Mideast have been about access to cheap oil, not defending our liberty. I feel deep sorrow for those who have suffered in those actions.
We won't do much about Ukraine, as the poor buggers have no oil.
Only 40% of US-consumed oil is imported - 60% is domestic production. Canada is the largest importer, followed by Mexico. So much for the "access to cheap oil" argument or I'd have spent more time in those places. Perhaps the Daily Show with Jon Stewart is not the paragon of factual news you paint it to be.
The Green Medow's farm's in Elsie,Mi used to have a large pair of Minnie Moe engines that ran on methane [cow farts]! These gen set's furnished the entire farm with power! Well said RD! Bud in Wheeler.
Additionally, you may want to check the definition of "socialism" and be careful about how you employ it - non sequitir in your rants. Army Chief of Staff, GEN Creighton Abrams once said "People aren't in the Army, people are the Army." Same holds true of "the US military" as a whole. There is no faceless, monolithic system as you apparently think there is with comments like "the US military is socialism on steroids" or "people living under..." There are men and women who go into harm's way when told to go. Your two year's of draftee service gives you no more right to disparage and insult than someone who has never served.
Sad and telling that you felt the need to add "draftee" in claiming your service. Most are content to simply say they served without implying anything else by use of the term "draftee."
What system are the US Mil personnel under?
It's not capitalism. It's not Democracy.
What is the personnel cost as a portion of the DOD budget?
During VN years, you were either a draftee, or a draft dodger. Some fled to Canada and Sweden; others like Dick Cheney had college deferments until he had to have kids to dodge the draft. I could have done the exact same, but didn't want to look at my child as my draft dodge.
Many joined the NG, USAF, Army or even the USMC to dodge the draft.
Hello Paul Vitko, good to see you here!
Hope all is well in your corner of Oregon.........
I don't want to drift or hijack a thread that is for Ralf but John and Joe's China pollution comments woke me up.
It is so polluted in Beijing that people wear masks and you can't see more than 300 ft.
It is only slightly better in Shanghai.
If I spend an extended time outside when there I return with allergy symptoms.
One of our morning rituals is to see how close we get to the smoke stacks in the free trade zone before we see them.
My last return flight was delayed a day because the "green fog " was so thick that we were not allowed to taxi
That pollution gets into the jet stream and ends up in Callifunny.
But in some ways it is payback for what Callifunny used to do to the East coast
You know I've heard both sides of this "Global Warming" argument and I can't fathom what everybody is so panicky about. If you accept the Earth as a living thing, then you have to also accept that it is in a constant state of change as are all living things. That said, the Earth has an enormous array of elements to combat and or counteract climatic effects that threaten the environment. Like the Gulf oil spill for one...whilst we threw up our hands and declared it was going to take over a hundred years to clean up such a mess and that even then it may never be the same...the ocean quietly yielded an oil eating enzyme to combat the threat of the gulf ocean environment, it didn't consult us on the best way to tackle the problem, it just responded the way it always does, with the action or actions needed to clear it. And it did more efficiently than we could and in less time.
What I'm saying is, I don't think we could ever do anything with the elements of the planet that this planet can't counteract. You talk about cows and the Methane from their flatulence...well, how about the Buffalo...the herds spanned over 4 states for a hell of a lot longer than cows have been here. And I'm pretty sure those big sod munching beasties probably expelled more than enough methane to drive a fleet of Model T's around the globe 4 or 5 times (maybe even more) than all of these puny cows put together.
It just seems that the smarter we think we are the dumber we end up sounding. Worrying about something we can't change nor ever could. Because no matter what we do here in Calfunny...the rest of the bloody world isn't on board with it at all sooo, what good is all these regulations and restrictions? The only thing they really do is deny us our personal freedoms, what I wonder is how far it will go before everybody wakes up and realizes this same thing...me I've got my GOOD bag and bug out strategy ready...and of course it involves a Model T Ford, she may not be quick, but she's durable, lol.
I didn't realize until now that I was a draft dodger. I joined the Navy and spent three years learning something that I could us on the outside.
It worked out well for me.
What always amazed me was how many kids told me they joined the army for three years to avoid being drafted for two years. I had trouble following the logic of that.
Martin, "and of course it involves a Model T Ford, she may not be quick, but she's durable, lol." should also remind us it is not susceptible to EMPs either.
Try this logic - I joined the Army in '66. While I disagreed with our involvement in SE Asia, I felt an obligation to serve. My choice was to be drafted and likely end up in combat arms in Viet Nam or enlist for a job that might provide me with some skills and limit my likelihood of being cannon fodder. That job choice made for a 3 year rather than 2 year commitment. The 4th year was because I wanted to choose where I would be assigned. I was married just before joining the service and wanted assurance of a stateside assignment. My choices worked well for me and in the end resulted in a successful 20 year military career followed by a civilian career that I would almost certainly not had without the skills and experience I obtained through the Army.
Some folks wanted to fight the fight, some fights are worth dying for, some aren't. I never discount the service and sacrifice of those that serve, especially those who paid with their life or health. US or RA makes no difference to me. Those that ran to Canada fit in a different bucket, even if Jimmy invited them back.
Walt (CW3 retired)
Wow. Talk about thread drift !!
This started to be about the cold weather and ended up being about serving in the military.
It is hard to keep up when things change so fast.
Say what you want - but I appreciate and honor the sacrifice our servicemen and gals give for our freedom
I served in Viet Nam with guys who were on their second and third tours. I don't believe they were draftees or draft dodgers.
It was a joke among us draftees.
My Dad joined right after WWII. He served between that and the Korean WAR (conflict my a$$).
My sister is a career USAF retiree........but the VA jacked around with her well deserved retirement benefits for over TWO YEARS.
Big Brother (ME) finally had enough and dragged in a Senator and two Wisconsin Representatives who then got HER congressmen involved.
Within 6 weeks of my initial contact she received her benefits........retroactively.
They never even bothered notifying her that her benefits were finally approved......grrrrrr.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
I appreciate our service people too......greatly.......but the MILITARY?
Not so much.......
Anyway........getting back on topic.......
Wisconsin has a number of cities reporting the coldest Winter on record and, according to the forecasts I've seen, we are in for more below zero nights so more records will be set.
GADS I'm sick of this but in view of what many other parts of the country have had to deal with I find it hard to complain too much.......
The VA is not "the military." Since it was established by Congress in 1930, it is an federal agency the coordinates all veterans affairs across the United States (prior to 1930, this was done almost exclusively at the state-level and resulted in wildly varying benefits and levels of care for veterans). It is a CIVILIAN agency with no connection to the Department of Defense. It is administered by civilians and the Secretary of Veterans Affairs is a cabinet-level position (the current secretary is a retired 4-star general, GEN Eric Shinseki, who is himself a disabled veteran, having lost part of a foot as a young officer in Vietnam).
And again, you cannot say you "appreciate" service people but not "the military." The two are not mutually exclusive - service people ARE the military and vice versa.
With regard to "thread drift" - yep, it's amazing where the bitter, uninformed rantings and so-called "jokes" of a few can take a crowd.
Sadly, there are younger folks on this forum who haven't necessarily served and are likely to take these rantings, spouted by individuals who have garnered a degree of recognition and respect for their technical advice on a Model T, as the gospel truth. Sorry boys, but that is a state of affairs that I cannot abide silently, as I do so much of the other OT silliness on this forum.
-30 here this am. The weatherman says it is -14
Ed,It said -15 last night and i think my fuel oil has gelled! Thank God my corn burner is holding the house at 66.Bud in Wheeler.PS,I wonder if i should drop a little 9-11 in the tank?Bud.
They didn't call off school today. Earlier this winter, it was called off for -12. One of our four cars would not start this morning. I am not going to warm up the shop until it is above zero today. The sun is shining brightly! Here is what we did yesterday. We held a benefit for the high school ski team, in honor of a past coach. I raced for the first time in my life, at 48.
Well Steve Jelf,
I am one of those 3 year types who joined in order to avoid the draft. I was afraid of being a *ground pounder*...instead I got a good education in electronics, assigned to great locations and responsibilities and got to travel the middle east and Europe. Of course, this doesn't happen to everyone...it is always a gamble.
Being the youngest my oldest brother joined the service in about 1945. He flew several types of planes and was in SAC flying a B47 Served in Iran learning three levels of language before and retired comfortably. I only new him for a month of my life as he was always far from Oregon. Two other brothers served in the air force one owns ten homes the other is past after ten years of comfortable retirement. The three brothers who served in the military can credit what they learned for there success in life. I could not hear well enough and was rejected.
John, I think you're right about it being a gamble. I met some guys who got what they signed up for, and some who didn't. I was lucky enough to go to Korea and miss the Big Show.
I'm one of those weirdo's that think the draft was a good thing. There were a lot of guys that grew up in the Army. Several countries - Finland and I think Switzerland (?) come to mind - that have mandatory service of a couple of years.
I'm with you on that, Fred. It was a great equalizer.
I too think the draft was a good thing. It seems to me that youngsters should give some service to this country. They could serve in the Peace Corps or some similar organization, or in the military if there is that need. I know that 4 years in the Service helped me to mature and take school seriously afterward. I really wasn't very ready to study at age 18.
Wow, Ralph and I agree on something. Miracles never cease. Maybe another one could happen. Ya reckon???
And, I like your term - equalizer. How true. We had a rich kid at Fort Lost in the Woods that flat out said he was to good to do what the DI told him to do. He was in the brig when we all went home for Christmas - 1965.
I too remember the draft and I still have my draft card. I remember all the antics that people went through to get out of it too. I didn't dodge it, it dodge me. About the time I would've come up for it, they went to that new system, the "Lottery". A friend of mine got 65, whilst I got 365, the VC would've had to invade DC before I would've been called with that number.
At Fort Puke in Jan. '66, we had a pimply-faced son of a major Chicago crime boss, who I saw visit one Saturday with 3 of his cronies.
Instead of college, high school seniors should be competing for different jobs in a year of National Service. College can come after for those inclined.
Did somebody say Fort Puke? Here's a stroll down memory lane for you, RD. I was just a year ahead of you. January 65.
There was a guy in Basic training always smiling. He said he enjoyed hearing others complain. Not a bad take on the situation.
For me, Boy Scout camp in Oregon was tougher. We roughed it.
Along this line, whenever a front line vet feels like talking, take time to listen. I have a friend that was 93 last month. He was a machine gunner on the front line in Germany. He finished the war. He was still having "problems" with the things he'd done up until a couple of years ago. Sometimes we talk for a couple of hours. He's told me a lot, some of it I'll take to my grave, but I'm sure he'll take most of it to his grave - which isn't to far in the future. He's going down hill.
Martin, I wasn't much ahead of you, #357. My older brother served in 'Nam in Da Nang (sp?) and I think still has some problems from it. My dad passed away two years ago, he was at the Battle of St. Lowe, and seldom talked about it, I think twice in his life. We learned a lot more after we looked in the wooden crate he sent back at the end of the war.
yea I lost a friend last week that was a WW2 veteran.Battle of the Bulge.
He was a smart man that did well for himself.Bought a Harley at 90 and rode till a couple months before he died at 95.James R.Eudy.
I wont get into my opinions of the draft and such but I do wish someone could answer 1 question I have had for many years.
Why is it a 18 year old male is considered old enough to be forced by draft to die for his country but can not buy a beer for another 3 years? :>0
My senior year was the last year of the draft too. Following college and a bit of rambling around, I joined the National Guard. A few years later I was able to go on active duty as a guard member, and as a result saw the usual places such as Germany and South Korea.
Most of our allies, including the two mentioned above, require service after high school. I agree, we should require some type of service, and military and public service would be good choices in my opinion. I believe if everyone had a stake in military excursions, we might exercise more restraint before engaging our military. Of course, these are just my opinions.
Mack, I have always wondered the same thing. Dave
The gov. wants him to be able to shoot straight for the years they have him. :-)
If i remember you could buy on post at 18.I used to like a beer after cleaning up after Grants horse! Bud in Wheeler.
Has to do with physical as opposed to emotional maturity.
The drinking age in Holland is 16. That is typical, I think, for most European countries. I took this picture in a supermarket in 2012. It says, "Alcohol under 16, of course not!" It adds that they card up to 20.
Of course, you can't get a driver's license until 18, and even then it is prohibitively expensive to do so....
AGE WHAT AGE.
I remember that when my brother turned 21 I took him out to a bar for a drink. They ask him for ID. He is my older brother by two years. He wasn't very happy but didn't say anything.
I remember turning 21. I went into a bar in Boston at midnight but don't remember leaving
I turned 21 in boot camp. Not exactly the place for a big party.
When I turned 21 I was on leave in Berchtesgaden Germany staying at the Duetcheshaus Hotel. I had a reel to reel tape recorder with me and was making a tape to send to my parents. The weather turned bad and it started snowing and in about 3 days it went from shirt sleeve weather to 35 below ZERO. The coldest Germany had had in 90 years according to AFN Frankfurt. BURRRRRRR cold.