Been lurking for a while and need some help with replacing wooden Stewart dash panel with metal one.
Have a Sept. 1919 open car with factory starter.
There is a metal trim piece on cowl, dash panel fits behind and a mounting hole in center.
What is this trim piece called and are they available?
Also, there a hole top center of dash.
What bolt or screw is used here?
Need the bolt style and size holding upper corners of dash to window frame.
Hi Jon and welcome. I went and took a picture of my 1919 open car. I can't say for sure what is correct or not but, this is what is on mine.
Jon, I forgot to mention, I would love to see some pics of your car if possible. Mine is also a 1919 Runabout. There is a pic of it in my profile if you want to see it.
JK, I am restoring a 21 Touring and also earlier restored 1919 runabout.
The size of the roundhead stovebolt is 5/16.
You can buy a nice looking interior trim set from Langs or Snyders. All the necessary bolts and nuts are in the trim set.
The trim sets are plated but you can go to a hardware store and buy only what you need and paint them black if you want to be original but the plated trim set does look nice.
What's wrong with the wooden Stewart panel? I think they're kinda keen.
I have an original 1919 touring car, August build date, and the dash is wood with what appears to be leather covering. Definitely not metal. It cleaned up exceptionally well with Neatsfoot oil.
Thanks for the help.
Richard your picture shows hole in center of trim, is there a screw or bolt there?
Mine has hole in same place, appears to hold dash in place.
Dave nice car.
My roadster is mostly original condition with a older repaint and some upgrades / replacement parts over the years.
Water pump, carb changed, distributorů
Getting ready to drive this spring, if the snow ever melts.
I'll send you photos, thank you for picture.
Thanks for the lead John' looking now for trim set.
Dave the Stewart panel is cracked and missing pieces.
Welcome to the forum. I have a couple questions. Does your car have side lights with the integral brackets to the windshield frame (not the bolt on ones) If so it probably was a non starter car when new. Next question. Is the ignition switch on the coil box. If so you car was non starter when new. and never had a dash. If your open car had been an Aug 1918 to aprox May 1919. It would have been a non starter when new, as starters were only offered on closed cars till aprox May 1919. Since you car is a Sept 1919 car it actually is a 1920 (model year) car. Your car could have been starter or non starter equipped. The bulk of 1919 and 1920 (model year) open car production would have been in my opinion, non starter equipped. But your Sept 1919 date does allow your car to be "correct" as a starter car. Very few of the non starter cars exist today as it was easy to change over to starter later. A non starter car will also have a combination horn and light switch on the steering column, and there would have been a headlight dimmer/resisitor on the engine side of the firewall. . But again it is an easy item to be changed thru the years. If you wanted a speedometer after the 1915 models you had to buy your own. Stewart offered the wood dash or a special firewall cup to have a place to mount the Speedometer. (speedometers models 100 and 102) If you mount a steel dash to make it as a starter car you will need the straight bottom type dash with the 2 little mounting "ears" at each end. and not the curved end type. An ignition switch panel with amp gauge, a coil box with no switch, and a horn button that is "horn only" and a battery type horn. Non starter cars still used the mag horn. As to the screw, I believe Dave is correct. Most all of them I have seen are a 5/16 round head stove bolt with straight slot and a "heavy hex" nut on the back side. I also want to say that I am in no way "picking at" your car. Im just trying to forward information as to what may have been on your car when new. And while I always try to post correct info I can, and have, been corrected before. .
Richard. I have never seen a dash like yours from Ford. It probably is an aftermarket upgrade when a non starter car was converted to a starter car. May have even been done when new by a dealer trying to sell the non starter cars. Im not sure, but your horn switch appears to be the combination horn light switch that was used on non-starter cars. Does your car have a mag horn. If so that is another "sign" of a non starter car. I have always been interested in the non starter issue. I believe that all of the 1919 and early 1920 (model year) open cars were non starter when new. But very few remained that way.
Try to answer your questions and thanks for the help.
1. No side lights
2. No ignition switch on the coil box,
3. No switch on coil box.
4. Light switch on panel with key.
5. Horn button, horn only.
It seems to be factory starter car.
I also noticed the hole above the center of Richard's dash. Mine has a bolt there just like the other two.
I checked the list of changes and it shows leather covered wood dashes on open cars in early production, replaced by steel dashes by mid 1919. In November, which would be 1920 model year, there was a shortage of metal dashes and they went back to wood.
Dave: Thanks for the info. I learn something new all the time about Ts. I believe the 1919 to 1923 cars are the hardest to get "correct" because of so many changes. Jon. Yes your car appears to be a factory starter open car. Good luck with the project....
Donnie, according to Bruce, the battery horn was installed on the starter equipped cars beginning in 1922. The 1919, 1920, and 1921 cars with starters came with magneto horns. So, having a magneto horn on a 1919, 1920, or 1921 car is not a sign that it was a non starter car.
JK, the hole in the trim does not extend to the dash. The hole is only in the trim piece, there is no screw or bolt. The leather covering the wood dash is solid underneath.
Donnie, the horn is magneto, typical for starter/generator cars of that vintage. Only the lights are battery driven. The horn switch is not the serrated type although it appears to be in the photo. The lights are controlled in the usual fashion by the lever under the ignition switch.
Richard, so you believe the center hole on the dash trim has no bolt? If so, why would there be a hole there? Jim, thanks for pointing out the dates on the magneto horns. It would be too easy to forget about that important fact. Jon and Richard, it would help if we could get a clear photo of your horn buttons to see which type you have as that seems to be a bit of a grey area on 1919 cars.
Horn button picture.
Thanks Jon. Your horn button is the same as mine. It has the knurled edge like the combination horn/light switch on the non starter cars yet it doesn't turn to activate lights. Looks like the smooth edge button had not arrived yet and of course, Henry would never throw out thousands of knurled buttons if he could find a way to use them. Richard, does your button look like Jon's or is it the smooth edge type which later years definitely had?
It also wouldn't hurt to hear from owners of 1920 and 1921 starter cars to see when the knurled button disappeared.
my 19 touring with a march 14 engine # has no dash, plain steel switch on coil box, horn/light switch, cowl lights, no starter. is this correct?
Dave, I can only speak for what's on my car. The hole you see in the trim does not extend into the dash. The leather covering underneath is undisturbed. Perhaps a screw was needed to hold the steel dash that was also used during 1919, or keep it from rattling against the trim piece, I don't know, all speculation. My horn button has the smooth edge. It is not the horn button pictured above. I am familiar with that kind of button, I have it on another car.
I have a Ford script ignition switch that is round, and must have been used on the real early '19s. It uses a Clum key, with a different numbering system than Ford used.
Clayton, I am no expert on 1919 cars, but I believe your set up is correct.
Richard, I checked behind my steel dash. The bolt in the center goes through both the trim piece and the dash with a square nut on the back so, it appears you guess correctly that the hole is there for the steel dash. Clayton, I also agree your car is correct for a non starter car.
Richard, what kind of trim goes around where the choke rod comes through the dash?