OT - An Interesting Early Mystery Car from the AACA Library

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT - An Interesting Early Mystery Car from the AACA Library
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 06:19 pm:



We are working with the AACA Library & Research Center on a program to identify many of their unknown images and have been presenting them in quiz form to help them get more exposer.

This photo was taken at an early auto show here in the United States of a known domestic make of car. Clearly shown is the very advanced engine that helped this automaker become quite well
known on both the road and track. Join in to learn, see an enlargement of the engine and tell us what brand of car you think this may be at: http://theoldmotor.com/?p=115775


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 07:49 pm:

pungs finch?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 09:13 pm:

David, That is a good thought and they are quite similar, but sorry it is not a Pungs Finch. Look for an article on that maker down the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wes Nelson ........Bucyrus, MO on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 09:34 pm:

It looks like a K car to me... Rob chime in here please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, March 01, 2014 - 10:29 pm:

For sure not a Ford Model K. This car has a three speed transmission. The Model K had only a two speed planetary transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 11:49 am:

anyone else dare a guess?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 11:58 am:

Thomas?
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 11:59 am:

The answer does not have to be into The Old Motor until Tuesday night so I can post the names of all that got it correct on Wednesday morning.

One hint, it was built in the Northeast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 12:18 pm:

Northeast,What about a Shawmutt?? My thanks to David for all!! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 01:33 pm:

Kenneth, Thanks but it is not a Shawmutt either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 01:41 pm:

1906 grout?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 02:55 pm:

I need to change that to Matheson, good thing I've been sick on the couch for two days, gave me time to go through stuff. That's my final answer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 07:05 pm:

David M., I'm with you. Matheson looks as close as anything I could find. The heavy brake handle and steering box look similar, along with the large wide radiator. A couple of Matheson pics I found that look similar (to me).

If it is a Matheson, I would not have guessed it without David M.'s post:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 07:09 pm:

Two other things we can tell from the picture David G. Posted:

1. The car hasn't run lately (hand on the radiator)

2. The guy with his hand on the radiator doesn't have to polish his own brass........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 07:18 pm:

Rob: And I think he is a salesman. Thanks to all for participating. All the correct answers w/be posted Wednesday morning.

If you gents like quizzes, how about this car below that is also from the AACA Library?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 07:27 pm:

I found the info of all places, on the old motor! In a roundabout way:-) The car is also missing its exhaust manifold.. Must have been a loud presentation! love quizzes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 07:48 pm:

The car in the last pic, its tough, maybe american darraq


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 08:14 pm:

And I should really have checked Mr. Greenlees site before I put my foot in my mouth, should have also spelled darracq correctly! But someone already got the above car as an 04 Panhard Levassor


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, March 02, 2014 - 08:32 pm:

That off center crank look's strange! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 02:30 pm:

I have been wrong many times before!!!!and know one has been slow to point that out to me.!!!!!! but you may not have to shine the radiator ,by my tape the hood covers it?????.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 03:42 pm:

With respect to the second car depicted:

Might the crank have been offset to allow for gearing to reduce the effort to pull the handle?

The license plate was issued in August of 1905 by the state of Connecticut.

It looks to me like a Father - Son team in the front seat, in their best clothes. Even their dog is sporting its Sunday go to town attire.

It appears that they are either headed to or from a parade.

I wonder where the photo was taken.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wes Nelson ........Bucyrus, MO on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 03:54 pm:

Royce, How can you tell what trans is in the first picture? I'm just curious, Wes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 05:34 pm:

Leather covers on the tie rod ends! Were they ever used on model T's? Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 07:43 pm:

Wes,

You can see the gated shift lever selector next to the parking brake. The selector is in neutral. The brake is set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 07:48 pm:

This picture is on the Matheson family website captioned "Matheson car with Henry Ford as the driver"

It's not a Matheson.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 07:59 pm:

The matheson family appears to be in a 1905 ford model b, great picture!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 08:01 pm:

Here's a 1906 Matheson advertisement for those of you still confused about the transmission type or anything else.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 08:07 pm:

That is a very clear pic of Henry Ford, and I believe John Grey next to him, jeez a smile wouldn't have hurt would it. I would be smiling ear to ear, like look what I built!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wes Nelson ........Bucyrus, MO on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

Thanks Royce, I know so very little about early cars, I think I'll just sit back read and be quiet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 10:00 pm:

Royce, good pic, thank you for posting. It looks like an early Model B (step plates instead of running boards).

A February 1905 ad with a similar Ford:



And Henry and Clara Ford with a later Model B:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 10:09 pm:

I keep looking at the two Model B, and the later one directly above has a different radiator, and it appears, different front frame crossmember. I have not noticed this before, but it looks like the car above has a "beefed up" front suspension?

Below is another B with running boards, but the same front end as the one Royce posted:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, March 03, 2014 - 11:14 pm:

On the photo of the Model B with Henry and Clara, who is driving? It looks like Spider Huff!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 07:08 am:



The AACA Library Mystery Car was indeed a Matheson. Follow the link to see pages showing many factory photos of the fine cars from
the Robert C. Laurens collection @ http://theoldmotor.com/?s=matheson&paged=3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 09:00 am:

David,Is it a early overhead cam? Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Greenlees on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 09:39 am:

Bud, It is close but it is on the side of the head so I guess we would have to call it a HSOHC

High Side Overhead Cam.....LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 09:46 am:

Certainly looks like a complicated engine to say the least. I loved the picture with the dog all "dolled up"!! I love all the pics of these early cars, as there's so dang many of them to learn about. Just wish I could remember half the stuff I see!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 12:13 pm:

David, Thank you for this fun challenge.

Although I must admit I had never heard of a Mathison before your post, It is a most interesting automobile very much worth learning about. Once again thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 01:37 pm:

Bud,

The Matheson was very unique in that it used make & break ignition. The camshaft also had lobes on it that actuated the make & break points.

If you get to Chickasha, OK and are able to visit Don Bolton's collection, you'll see one there. It's an amazingly complex engine, using an ignition system that was totally outdated, even then. As I recall, the braking system, carburetor and lubrication were all very unique. Matheson did nothing "by the book".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, March 05, 2014 - 05:16 pm:

Thank's Jerry!!!!!!!!!!!! Bud in Wheeler.


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