One of those famous replacement engines

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: One of those famous replacement engines
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 04:24 pm:

I've read about them plenty of times, but I think this is the first one I've seen. A 1927-style engine stamped with an April 6, 1921, serial number. I wonder if the small size is meant to indicate it's a replacement.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:20 pm:

Seems like I read that Model T replacement blocks were made until 1941.
If that's so then this may one of them. Also the 26-27 blocks didn't have Ford script on them. Or so I heard. Not sure on that.

Did other companies other than Ford make the blocks as replacements or did Ford make them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 05:54 pm:

Steve - is there a casting date?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 08:58 pm:

Steve: I had one. It was a one piece valve cover style with a 1914 engine # I have also seen the small #s before but do not remember what year engine they were on


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 09:13 pm:

Steve, I have one that was never stamped at all. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 09:25 pm:

Steve, I also have one on my 23 touring that has never been stamped. To identify my vehicle, I put the seriel number on the frame, as I didn't want to mess up the bare engine casting. This car has been in the family since purchased used in 1926 and also has a 1924 cast front axle and after market front spring. I suspect it had been in an accident and the engine replaced in the first 3 years of it's life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

It seems Ford left engines (in the case of what follows "crankcase") unstamped as replacements even before the Model T.

I have an old car friend with two Model N, one 1906 and one 1907. They have aluminum crankcases (cylinders cast in pairs bolted to the top of the crankcase). Ford stamped the engine number on the crankcase, and they frequently broke, either due to frame flexing or rods/engine disintegration. Both of his cars are "un stamped."

Apparently dealers (or repair shops, or shade tree mechanic) frequently skipped (or didn't have stamps available) the process of restamping the crankcase or blocks when they were replaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod McKenzie on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

Go back into some of the previous years forum postings and have a look at "IPCO" engines. These were made by the "Interchangeable Parts Company" in Woolworth Towers in New York. There are a few about. I have heard of one on the east coast of USA, one in Australia, and I have one here in New Zealand. Goodness knows how it got here! Mine was cast in 1922. Somewhere back there in the forum are some reasonable photos too. There is no actual engine number or other stamping on my block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 09:53 pm:

The '26 Runbout has a October '26 engine number.... and the block without the Ford script


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 10:10 pm:

Steve, I can't tell for sure because of the shadow, but the web between cylinders 2 and 3 doesn't look to be punched out for a throttle rod, or is it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 11:14 pm:

No, there's no hole for the throttle linkage. That's why I called it 1927-style. One of those 1927 to 1941 engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 11:32 pm:

But Steve, why has it got a 1921 serial number if it doesn't have a hole punched for the throttle linkage; unless they used a vaporizer carb on the 21.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 11:56 pm:

Going out on a limb here.

Maybe the shop that installed the replacement engine, or engine block, only had that size set of steel stamps and decided it was better than nothing.

Those stamp sets aren't cheap and sometimes you use what you have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 11:57 pm:

Testing an early vaporizer prototype? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 01:24 am:

RHD, but in saying that, I haven't come across a Canadian block as 'yet' that still had the web in-tacked for RHD.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 03:08 am:

Steve, if you want to sell it, bring it to Chickasha. I've got a home for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William A. Reep III on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 08:31 am:

I too have an engine w/o any serial no. Came out of a '26/'27 Tudor. Also no throttle pull rod hole, as it did have a vaporizor on it. As I remember the valve cover had no hole either. I disassembled the unit and found it to be very good inside, trans. and all. Haven't checked any tolerances though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 10:18 am:

Ford factory assembled engines have serial number stamped in the boss. Those engines that are plain unmarked, were sold as engine blocks, for replacement of the block.

The dealer or shop was instructed to stamp the replacement number in the empty boss on the bare block after the engine was assembled and re-installed in the used or repaired T, but didn't have to use any special size stamps. Just what could be had.

So, many still remained unstamped and used, as many dealers didn't follow this instruction too well :-)

For 'new' replacement block


or

For rebuilt and previous stamped replacement engine in old car, instructions to 'keep' the old number from the old removed engine by stamping it too on the replacement one for records.




And here is one of other 'non-Ford' made blocks for Model T's



Factory stamping method


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duane Markuson on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 06:39 pm:

Did the ipco blocks have any markings that ID them as ipco blocks? I have an unstamped 26, 27 block and am just wondering. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod McKenzie on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 08:22 pm:

On the IPCO block there is writing in the form of casting within the crankcase stating that the block was manufactured by the Interchangeable Parts Company, Woolworth Towers, NY. There is also a "boss" on the side of the engine crankcase at #7 lobe of the camshaft from where a fuel or oil pump could be fitted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duane Markuson on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 10:49 pm:

Thanks Rod, will take a look at my block in a few days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 01:06 am:

Here is a picture of the IPCO block I saw which was printed in the Vintage Ford in 1980.

You can see the IPCO mark on the side instead of Ford. and also the 2 flat areas wh3re you can stamp IPCO No and Engine No as well as the casting date on the left 2/27/22

ipco01
ipco02


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 06:25 am:

There seems to have been a batch of unnumbered blocks [cast on 8-21-18] that had the made in USA removed and delivered to AUSTRALIA from Canada .I know of a few [including mine] on the East Coast .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Henry on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 06:57 am:

I have an unstamped block cast 12-17-17 here in Melbourne. Made in USA (or Canada) and the Ford script are both missing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod McKenzie on Thursday, March 13, 2014 - 04:24 pm:

I also have an unstamped block which was cast 4-26-18. However, it does have "Made in Canada" and "Ford" cast on the side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Thursday, March 13, 2014 - 04:36 pm:

Rob,

Our N also is unstamped.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Thursday, March 13, 2014 - 05:49 pm:

The 27 Tudor I imported from the USA had no number on the boss. To be able to register it, I had to stamp the frame number onto the motor. To preserve th un-numbered block I toyed with the idea of stamping the number on an alloy plate and sandwiching it between the block and the water outlet casting. I decided against it, not wanting to upset the drongos at the inspection station.

Allan from down under.


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