ENGINE REMOVAL..Step-by-Step Procedure 1914

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: ENGINE REMOVAL..Step-by-Step Procedure 1914
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 03:31 pm:

Is there a book / reference/ advice on the proper way to remove and replace the engine in a step-wise fashion? Hopefully with some helpful tips along the way. I'm having my original 1914 engine rebuilt and upon it's return I'll be swapping the '27 currently in the car for it's original motor. Any helpful tips / tricks / will be appreciated. Thank You! (BTW..She turned 100 today!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 05:46 pm:

Gary - Working from memory:

1. Drain the radiator
2. Remove headlamps so they are not damaged.
3. Remove Hood
4. Disconnect Radiator hoses
5. Remove Coil Box and wiring from firewall
6. Remove radiator support rod
7. Remove radiator
8. Disconnect throttle and spark linkage, remove rods
9. Remove floor boards
10. Remove windshield
11. Remove steering rod
12. Remove front steering bracket from frame
13. Remove firewall and firewall brackets attached to the frame, steering column can stay attached to firewall. I would remove side-lamps prior to removing firewall so that they are not damaged.
14. Disconnect the front radius rod from engine pan
15. Remove the 4 bolts that connect the drive-shaft housing to the hogshead
16. Remove the 4 bolts from the engine mount to the frame, 2 on each side
17. Shut off fuel at the tank or drain tank and remove the fuel line
18. Remove front engine mount bolts.
19. Remove timer
20. Lift out engine

Reverse to install except you will have to line up u-joint with tail-shaft to install. Pack u-joint with grease prior to installing engine.

I know this is not official but it is what I have done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 05:52 pm:

.02 from a newbee..... If it has a starter, first disconnect the battery.

Also , if it has a starter currently, and you intend to remove the starter - let the group know. There is a procedure for that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 06:21 pm:

Is there a way to remove the engine without removing the firewall?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 06:40 pm:

Firewall needs to be removed on the brass cars, Pan ears will not clear on the sides and the pedals will not clear in the back. I had to remove the firewall on 09, 11, 13 and 14's. The plus is that it makes it a lot easier to work on with everything out of the way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 06:55 pm:

Leave the steering column, coil box and wiring attached to the firewall. Remove the coil to make it lighter. The wiring stays connected to the coil box and the timer. Remove the whole thing as a unit.

Like this:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 07:09 pm:

The main reason that I remove the coil box is so that I can remove the radiator support rod, it is behind the box and I just don't like it sticking out there while I'm working on the front part of the car. I always feel like I'm going to poke myself in the eye!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 07:09 pm:

Try it this way. Be sure to eat your Wheaties the morning before!engineengine 2engine 3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 07:34 pm:

What!?!...no hoist? Is this guy that bionic man? Cripes, that assembly weights more than 500 pounds! That's nuts. I suspect with a little grunting it might slide, and using balance points for the actual removal, but still...........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 07:38 pm:

The firewall and the radiator rod go away right after you remove the radiator. No reason to remove the rod from the firewall, you have to remove the firewall so why mess with the rod? You don't work in front of the car except to install or remove the radiator and headlights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 07:44 pm:

If you are swapping a '14 for the '27 in the car you will need new floorboards as the pedal spacing is different assuming the hogs head is '27 also. If you are using an earlier hogs head with a '27 motor you are OK as is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 08:45 pm:

Royce, how do you remove the steering bracket and steering rod if you are not working in front of the car. You have to remove those things before you can remove the firewall. I sure like having the radiator out of the way to get to those parts. You are correct it does not have to be removed, I just like to remove it, it makes me feel better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 09:31 pm:

Wow..like always..Thanks All! Yes, the '27 engine has a starter but the orig 14 will be non-starter. And I will need new floorboards. Is there any special seals being used to try to stop the oil leaks? OK..so I have some work to do. I did not realize the firewall has to come out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 09:38 pm:

I take the three bolts out that attach the steering bracket to the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 10:13 pm:

I didn't know the firewall had to come out, so I left it in. I just raised the body a couple of inches and blocked it up.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 10:28 pm:

That's what happens when you don't know the "right" way Steve.
Years ago we were straightening a school bus drive shaft when another customer stopped in and informed us "You can't straighten those".
I said if we had known that we'd have stopped 30 years ago....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 11:08 pm:

i have done the manual engine remove like shown in the pics, and in the mtfca engine book, it works well and you dont have to be superman. you do need a hoist to reinstall though, i use the bobcat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:16 am:

More than one way to skin a cat for sure. There is no exact certain way. Farm boys would use a tree! Havent seen that one here yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Crane on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:24 am:

What I really like is the time allotment from FORDs to do the job...something on the order of 54 minutes if I remember correctly. Heck, I cant' find the tools in 54 minutes.

I think they give the mechanic a few extra minutes for the install


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 10:58 am:

Steve

Any reason your method wouldn't work on a 15' ?

Jon

Your time estimate seems dead on ! ;o)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 11:10 am:

Steve,

It's a lot less work to just remove the firewall with all the stuff attached to it on a '14.

Later cars like yours (1919 or so maybe?) have the firewall cut out and stamped steel firewall brackets that allow the engine to come out much more easily. A true 1915 would have forged steel firewall brackets that require a bit more work to get the engine out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 12:54 pm:

Royce, you mean like this?


Looks forged to me. Rodda shows this one as 1911-1916. I know the firewall in this car is wrong, but apparently the brackets are correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 01:51 pm:

I was looking at the holes in the frame for the 1919 and later stamped brackets, which would indicate a car at least 1919 or later to me. The firewall is also a later one, so someone retrofitted the forged brackets? If so the lower hole on the driver side firewall bracket has nothing to attach to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 03:20 pm:

Royce. Thank you for all your helpful advice. Being new to the community, let me ask…Are you a restorer or a master mechanic? You always have the best advice, seemingly coming from years of experience. BTW who are you in your profile picture? I like to have a face to the name!

Thanks again for all your help
G


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 03:52 pm:

Gary,

My current profile picture shows (l - r) Scott Rosenthal, Bruce McCalley, and me, on the occasion of Bruce signing the inside of the coil box lid of my 1912 touring at the Model T museum in Richmond Indiana, during the 2008 Centennial festivities.

I don't always have the best advice, but when I have advice, I always give it. There's a whole lot of great people giving advice on this forum. Many times several of us have a solution that is a good one, so try the one that sounds best to you. Don't take my word for it - see which one works best for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 04:48 pm:

I can pull the motor in my '27 in just under an hour but that is because the ears on the pan just slide out under the dash. I can't believe anyone can do it on the early cars in the 54 minutes the Ford book allocates but then again all those time estimates seem way too low.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 06:56 pm:

The correct method only involves a few simple step
Step 1 unhook everything you think needs to be unhooked.
Step 2 drink a beer and ponder
Step 3 if it's in the way, take it out.
Step 4 drink a bere and ponder
Step 5 lift the engine, look around it and unhook the rest of the things you missed in Step 1
Step 6 You got it; dreenk a beer and ponder.
Step 7 Remove what was missed in Step 3
Step 8 another ber
Step 9 hook up hoist
Step 10 go behind the garage and get rid of some of that beeer.
Step 11 drenck a beir and pundler
Step 13 half another beree
Step 14 go in the house and go to bed you're drunk!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 11:14 pm:

I'm going to have to bring that roadster to a gathering of old T guys and have them pick out everything that's wrong for 1915. I'm catching some of it as I work on the car, but I need some more experienced people to catch what I'm missing, like those frame holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 01:14 am:

Steve,

You could bring the car...pick the best of the best even to go over it...but you probably still won't have a consensus...and perhaps a good rip-roar as you sit back and watch as the intensity goes up :-)

I have a better idea...take a bunch of pic's and say it is For Sale and how much is it worth. Need to do it quick because once spring fever kicks in guys minds are elsewhere...but with the winter brain grog? Figure 36 hours tops and you will know everything that is right/and everything that is wrong....:-):-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 01:22 am:

Sorry Gary....back on point.

Just cold bend the one '27 pedal to fit...no need to change floorboards....

You may even like the shoe clips...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 09:19 am:

The holes for later stamped steel firewall brackets are right above the orange arrow.

I just checked, my '17 has the stamped steel firewall brackets so they must be 1917 and later, NOT 1919 as I incorrectly stated above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 09:34 am:

Steve your Roadster is more right than wrong. Steve is doing what I do as far as engine removal.
Removing the weight from the engine such as the head and maybe the starter, generator, manifolds and transmission cover makes things easier to handle when pulling out the engine.
Those items together are around 150 lbs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 09:38 am:

many frames of that time period have the holes for both types of body mounts punched in them. not that uncommon, i have two here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 05:33 pm:

The double set of firewall bracket holes began sometime in 1916 as the new stamped side mounted brackets came into use. Prior frames (early 1916 and back only had the two holes on the top of the frame for the cast brackets. In 1919 holes were added for the battery carrier. 1920 or so the cast running board brackets were replaced with the 1 piece U channel ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 05:42 pm:

I wonder if I should change my frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 06:05 pm:

Steve,

Naw, just put some plastic plugs in the extra holes. :-) Really, how many cars are "perfect" after 100 years? Just enjoy; I wouldn't kick your 15 roadster out of my garage--nice car and you're doing a great job on it. I have a NOS frame but it's 22-25 vintage. It's too nice to put under a car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Sunday, March 16, 2014 - 09:32 pm:

Steve,
Just do as I do and TIG or MIG the damned 4 holes up! Use a flat disc die grinder and smooth them off. Clean off with oil and grease remover, sand prime and repaint. Quit getting silly guys. More frames made it to the recyclers in the 30's and 40's then you could ever save. Unless you have a 1920's frame with the stamped running board braces, and starter switch. Then you might want to change that frame.
In the 50's and 60's while I was growing up and learning about T's. MANY guys wanted the brass styled T's Those T's today everybody thinks are BARN FINDS. I remember one fella using 1/2" sheet of plywood for his 09-10 roadster body and sheetmetal for the seat back. 13-14 differential. He drove that T for years in parades and shows. The frame was one that was punched for BOTH running board braces holes and the stamped FW brackets too.

Use a copper spoon to back up the holes when welding them up. I try to do my T's as per manufactured parts and not hodge-podge or install any year's parts but still there are trade offs to get any job done unless you've a pile of money, best friends (who will help), or another lifetime to do it in. Bottom line "Get-er done!!!" And don't lie about my car is original from the Ford dealership!!! Make it correct Steve.
Just my 2 cents.

Darn! I just shook my piggy bank!!! I think that IS ALL I have left in it! After my trip to Florida and ending up spending a week in the Dade County Hospital trying to pass a 9mm kidney stone! It is still in me too. They just pushed it back into the Kidney trying to get it out. I had to drive 1100 miles back home alone and with a catheter installed. Red bloody whizz in the urinal all the way home! Not fun! I am awaiting Lithotripsy this week I think????


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