OT - Exactly what part of this car is a 1923

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT - Exactly what part of this car is a 1923
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 12:25 pm:

http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/ClassifiedPics/23AlteredDragCar234.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Taylor on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 12:32 pm:

VERY VERY LITTLE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 12:40 pm:

I think the engine is an early experimental V8 for use in the '24 T but the idea was sold to Chevrolet and never made it to the T production line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 12:56 pm:

Oops forgot to include the for sale text
1923 ALTERED DRAG CAR

498ci Chevy, LS7 heads, H-Beam rods, roller springs & rockers, cam 681/681 lift, Brodex intake, 950 quick fuel carb, 4-link coil over shocks, 4.30:1 gears, JW Glide, 4,500 converter, engine diaper, new chute, enclosed trailer. Runs 8.70 in 1/4 mile. $19,500.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 12:57 pm:

The skiddoo!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 01:06 pm:

Might not even be a 1923 Ford!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 01:25 pm:

Nothing but, if you park your '24-'27 T beside it at a car show and there is a prize for oldest car in the show, guess what is likely going to happen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 01:29 pm:

Note..."No model T's were injured in the production of this vehicle".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 04:18 pm:

You IMO should be banned for posting that POS.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 04:25 pm:

The enclosed trailer!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 04:42 pm:

I have participated in several "car shows" with my 1923 Touring Car.

What I have come to understand, is that ALL "T-buckets" seem to be registered as 1923 Fords!

Can anyone tell me why that particular year was chosen?

I've parked next to a couple, and crawled all around them, and aside from the fact that the fiberglass seat bucket is copied from a Model T, I have yet to find anything on one of them that is actually from a Model T.

Frankly, it hacks me off!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 07:15 pm:

Jack I have a friend who sends me anything supposedly related to a model T I was merely pointing out the absurdity of it. it was pointed out that the trunk sorta resembled a T. I think we should refer to these as "Kit" cars at best.
Peter I did raise enough cane at one show to get one of those "Kit T buckets" removed from the class due to the owner being unable to point to any part that was manufactured in 1923!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 08:52 pm:

It looks like a case of building a race car to maximize every allowance a class gives you in order to go faster than the other guy. A T-bucket body is a quick and easy way to build something small, lightweight, and cheap.

I'm not real familiar with NHRA rules, but below is an example of a "Model T" built to SCCA D-Mod rules. By running real Model T frame rails, the rules allowed him a lower minimum weight than other tube-chassis cars in the class.

Calling it a "Model T" is simply a means to build the fastest car possible for the class.

Del Long's "1923 Model T"


...powered by Toyota.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 09:01 pm:

Why '23?

Because one of the bigger houses who makes fiberglass tub buckets claims he copied from a '23!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 03:54 am:

What I was told back in the '60s when I got going in this hobby, was that many states had a "Horseless Carriage" license that cut off at year 1922. There was a valid fear amongst hot-rodders that some states would force them to accept horseless carriage status and driving restrictions. Hence, many hotrods, trying to be as "early" (?) as they could, yet avoid the restrictions, were claimed as '23s. Califunny was one of the states that validated that fear, and that story was common. That is my story, and I am sticking to it.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 09:55 am:

I believe a lot of it is just historical. The T-bucket that Norm Grabowski (probably spelled wrong) built in the 50s 60s era called "Kooki T" and was used on the TV show (I think 77 Sunset Strip ??) is the most copied T-bucket around. It used a 23 T bodies. 23s also have a high firewall that lend themselves to hot rod construction better than a low firewall. . It was common knowledge that 23 to 25 would work but it became standard to call them all 23 Ts. Then when they came out with the fiberglass bodies to build you a T-bucket with they used the 23 models to copy. So all advertising of the fiberglass bodies call them "23 models". Later they started doing 26-27 roadster style bodies but almost all earlier bodys were 23s. So almost everything built today with a model T style body is called a 23. So with Waynes story and my story, "that's or story and were sticking to them"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 07:39 pm:

Donnie, I beg to differ with you. The low firewall T's stopped with the '23 model year. If it is a high firewall model, it is a '24 model year. The early/late '23 is a myth, at least that is what I have found on this forum many times. Just sayin'. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 08:03 pm:

I believe David is correct. And I also believe that Norm Grabowski's famous "Kookie's Car" probably was a (high-cowl) '24 model year body titled as a '23 as they often were back in the day, copied ad infinitum in fiberglass and called 23's. It's another example of a continued mistake perpetuated by repetition. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John E Cox on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 08:23 pm:

Many years ago when I was interested in the BAJA 1000 race the Class 5 cars had to have, if I remember correctly the piece of sheet metal in front of the door, There was nothing else from the VW convertible in the car.they used the VW 411 engine that was later used in the Porsche 914 and VW Bus.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 08:32 pm:

After some looking around, I found this pic which reputedly is the T from which Norm built his famous car. Hey -- It was on the internet, so it must be right. Right? :-)

t

It looks like a high-cowl car to me, so '24-5.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 09:14 pm:

Mike, I believe that is a low cowl. Look at how close the firewall brackets are to the edge of the firewall. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 09:27 pm:

Not to mention the windshield frame...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 09:48 pm:

OK David: Im going to have to wrap my brain around this one. I always thought low steel was transitional in late 22 early 23 (model year) before the high steel came out. then switched to high steel in mid to late 23 (model year) You are saying all 23s were low steel till the 24 (model year)cars came out. Im not disagreeing with you but Im from Missouri and I need "show me". Ive been wrong many times before, but to change my mind I have to prove it to myself. Im going to start looking at the list of changes. If you have the dates of change I would appreciate it. As to what car Norm used I guess I could drive over and ask him. (I guess he is still alive) He lives about 40 miles from me. I see him at shows from time to time. Mike you are right about the perpetuation of mistakes....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 10:19 pm:

Donnie -- Norm died a few years ago. I believe it's a high-cowl body. And I believe that the high cowl came into being with the '24 model year, which of course began during calendar year 1923. The slanted windshield started during the '23 model year as I understand it, before the low cowl happened.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, March 27, 2014 - 10:23 pm:

Norm died on October 12, 2012, at age 79.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 02:49 am:

Yep Donnie, that's pretty much it. I don't have any of the dates, but I'm sure somebody will chime in with them. As I recall, the '24 model year change over was a bit earlier than usual, hence the confusion. I didn't know this until I found this forum. I am definetly not an expert on model year dates. By the way, I'm from MO. too<g>. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 04:50 am:

I hate to hear about Norm passing. I have not been to many shows for the past few years. I used to see him at the Springfield Mo. show from time to time and also at our local show here in Clinton Ar. As to the 23 - 24 issue. Im still looking. I just had a few minutes last night to look, I have to head back to Shawnee OK. to help a friend pick up a car bought at Chickasa this morning. Its 3:30 AM and Im still asleep... but what I read in the black encyclopedia seems to say that the 23 models started in the summer of 1922. They started with low steel and then switched to the slanting windshield during calendar year of 23. I always assumed slanting windshield and high steel went together. Im leaving it at that till I research some more. I know it is easy to get the model and calendar year features mixed up. David, we may be in trouble if both of us are from Missouri .. ha ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 10:48 am:

"...before the low cowl happened."

From my post of 10:19 above. I meant to say before the high cowl happened. All this '23 - '24 stuff is confusing enough without saying the opposite of what you really are trying to say. :-)


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