New Parking Brake Gap and Grinding?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: New Parking Brake Gap and Grinding?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:20 am:

I have a new parking brake that I am attempting to put on and it does not look right. I have read where the width if the band needs to be ground down so that it will fix closer to the backing plate. I have also read where it needs to be cut where the bolt goes thru? The backing plate is also bent a little, so that has also added to the distortion. Any pointers would be helpful. I have added pictures below.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:29 am:

Scott, I don't see any pics. If you're having difficulty resizing and posting pics, you can send them to me at strangedude@att.net and I will resize and post them for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:37 am:

Direct View


Top View


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:40 am:

Possibly you have the bolt too tight, ease up on it a bit. Also, I don't see the spring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 11:52 am:

The plate appears bent in the second pic. I think you need to attempt to straighten or replace it. Coming off on the bolt might see you through as the shoes have to sit flush (evenly) against the backing plate and it looks like you have a lot of thread sticking out in back. As far as cutting the shoes goes I'm against it. They work perfectly fine (if kept properly adjusted) the way HF sent them out which was as one piece. Some will say they break there any way but when & if they do there's nothing to hold them back against the plate except the return springs which (again, my opinion), don't do a very good job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 12:21 pm:

Only trimming was needed on the new lined parking brake shoes for my install. Agree, your pic shows a pretty bent backing plate, that adds to your troubles.



NOS Ford shoe placed over new repro cast lined shoe, shows the difference at the cam flange.



Only mod needed for me was to grind away the projecting cam flange, as this wide flange was hitting the hub bold nuts, as it interferes. Think the vendor now does this mod to the castings? Just be sure you check before fitting the rear wheel. BTW, these new repro shoes are best yet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 06:30 pm:

Scott, yout backing plate is certainly bent. It should be corrected so that the shoes sit snugly against the backing plate.

Original shoes were indeed sent out in one piece. Can you imagine the difficulty machining the surfaces and the pivot points if the shoes were made individually? They would be like the previous rubbish reproduction shoes we had so much difficulty fettling to fit properly.

You can leave them in one piece and hope when/if they break it is in a manner which will be safe.
Or you can cut them at the pivot point, knowing that they will not give any problems. Perhaps just cut them nearly all the way through, so they will break at the pivot. Your choice.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 06:48 pm:

Allan, that is what I did with my new emergency brake shoes that I installed during the installation of my AC brakes. I used a Dremel tool to cut a groove about 2/3 of the way through the emergency brake shoe casting, just in front of the mounting bolt. That way, if the casting decides to crack, it is sure to crack at the groove.

The picture below shows my new emergency brake shoe on the driver's side during a trial fit, before I cut the groove. I added a black line on the photo to show where I cut the groove.

brake01


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Friday, March 28, 2014 - 06:57 pm:

Oh, I forgot to mention, note that my new emergency brake shoe castings were already relieved in the area that Dan trimmed his (I got mine from Lang's).

I had to use a longer rear anchor bolt to mount my AC brakes. The original bolt had a special thin head, so I cut the head of the new bolt to the same height as the old bolt to keep it from sticking out beyond the edges of the brake shoe casting.

Scott, good luck with your installation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 01:01 pm:

Mark;
Don't forget to put both springs in place. If the shoe does crack you don't want to have it flopping around. Also mount the springs to the inside that way the spring is pulling to to backing plate not away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 01:10 pm:

Thanks, Mark. The photo shows a trial fit - when I put it all together for good I greased the cam and installed the springs. I hooked them from the back side so that the springs are captured between the brake shoes and the backing plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 01:58 pm:

Thank you everyone for the feed back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 06:44 pm:

I don't mean to sidetrack the thread but as I look at the rocky mountain brake set up in the picture above, I was wondering why we don't use chain linkage from the parking brake arms and then use a counter shaft and chain linkage to the parking brakes which could then be activated in the same manner as the rocky mountain brakes with out all the hardware on the outside of the drums? Why wouldn't Ford have done this to begin with? This way the internal brakes could be used as service brakes and parking brakes,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 07:15 pm:

Chester, the vendors sell a "foot brake equalizer" that allows you to do just that, but it doesn't use chains. The kit description says it is for 1926/27 cars with the larger drums, but I suppose you could use it on the small drums, the braking just wouldn't be as effective as it would with the larger drums.

http://www.modeltford.com/item/2566BEQ.aspx

The external brakes you see in my picture above are original AC brakes. They originally were designed to be actuated via a pull rod, cable, and pulley assembly that attached to the brake pedal arm, like so:

ac_brakes

I initially tried to duplicate that method, but eventually decided to use the vendor "foot brake equalizer" assembly to actuate my AC brakes. See the thread below, I have put 100 miles or so on the system so far and it is working great.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/413737.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 01:06 pm:

*Bump* with additional question

Since the backing plate is bent in the first few pictures, is it safe to try and bend it back into place with the use of heat. Is the backing place steel or of a brittle material that I will BREAK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 02:45 pm:

I don't think you'll break it. I just bent one with a three-jaw puller, trying to remove a stubborn axle shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 02:49 pm:

Scott, you will not break it if you are gentle bending it back. I have straightened a few with a large monkey wrench.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 03:17 pm:

My problems with the new brake shoes were even worse than what most of you are describing. The reason being that I am putting on floating hubs AND Sure Stop brakes as well as the new shoes. This is on a 1914 small drum, wood wheel car.
I will outline the problems and solutions found thus far:
Right rear wheel:
1) The edge of the floating hub hit the corner of the brake cam. Solution: I cut off the corner of the brake cam (about 1/4 inch).
2) The floating hub bolts hit on the brake shoe return springs. Solution: I milled about 1/8 inch off the back of the brake shoes. (No, bending the springs did not do it!) While I was at it, I cut the shoes in half at the pivot. Makes sense to me. Right rear wheel does not scrape anymore and turns freely.
On to the Left rear wheel:
I made all of the changes mentioned above since the same problems seemed likely to occur on the Left.
1) Left wheel went on nicely and I tightened the axle nut, but the wheel locked-up completely and would not budge!
2) I removed the wheel only to find that the inside edge of the Sure Stop drum was rubbing on the axle housing end plate. I know someone is going to say that the drum does not extend over the housing end plate. YES IT DOES!!! We are talking after market here. The Sure Stop drum is 1 3/4 deep while the stock drum is 1 1/4 deep. In addition the Sure Stop has some rather sloppy welds holding the drum and disc together with the result that they hang up when trying to go over the end plate. I have not done this yet, but the solution looks like the welds and/or the end plate can be ground off a bit to fix this. I have not done this part yet -- say a prayer for me!

Another thing that you should know before even thinking about floating hubs and Sure Stops on a small drum car. If you do this you must put on and take off the whole tire, wheel, floating hub and Sure Stop drum and disk AS A SINGLE UNIT! It weighs about 1000 lbs.(!), and is almost impossible for little old guys like me to lift and line up the floating hub with the axle housing. Because of all the problems I have taken the right wheel off about 8 times (I have lost count!).
To make matters worse, if you have to change a tire, you must now take the brakes apart. (Unless you are strong enough to change the tire on the car which I am not.)

There ARE a coupe of solutions to this serviceability problem:
1) Put on demountable rims.
2) Go to wire wheels. (What I am going to do.)
Neither one of these is cheap, but at least then you can change a tire w/o taking everything apart.

Sorry to go on about this, but Sure Stops and floating hubs seem like such good ideas that a great many folks want to do them. I just wanted to warn people about the down side before they invest considerable money in these kits. They are not as simple as the manufacturers would have you believe.

Cheers,
Jon


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