Got my front plate - have questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Got my front plate - have questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 12:44 am:

Ok won this on tBay but with going to the swap meet had him ship it later.
Got it on Thursday and couldn't wait to unpack it. Looks even better that the pictures that were on the auction.



My first question is what direction does the shaft gear go on? My guess is the drilled hole is at the top, and the gear rests at the bottom of the casting. New gears and shaft.



Next question is the way the gear for the cam is put on the cam. If any body has pictures of the gear on the cam, and the back side of the plate with the shaft installed it would be helpful.

The casting looks so good, my guess is a older repo? If anybody knows that would be helpful. It is cast iron. The dist head I picket up at Chickasaw, same used on the new aluminum reproduced plate. Fits a bit snug but just needs some paint removed from inside the shaft hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 12:49 am:

Here is the distributor head and plate.



It's a bit freaky that the cast arm fits, if its a reproduction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 01:09 pm:

Jermone they are being sold new by TW Components Inc Noblesville Ind


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 01:27 pm:

The more common (late engine) generator style were offered by TW; however, looks to be for the non-generator style engine. Not sure who is making those at the present time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 02:15 pm:

Thanks Mark I didn't catch that


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 02:49 pm:

I got the distributor head from TW at the swap meet. I'm not sure if the plate is an original or a reproduction. On the back side is a casting mark showing Rob Brown Mass.

Still looking for any instructions on how to set up the gears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 03:04 pm:

Jerome
Your assumption is correct, hole to the top. The "jam screw" in the cover is brought up to just take and fore and aft play out of the camshaft.
I am going to suggest removing the jam screw while installing and make a centering device that threads in (or close slip fit) and can be used to centre the cam shaft with that hole. This should help to ensure good alignment of the distributor drive gears


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, March 29, 2014 - 03:41 pm:

Les, great idea, will start on that Monday. Found a picture online that confirms my idea that the shaft gear goes on with the hold for the pin high. My only "need to know" is the correct way the cam gear goes on. Les, any one contact you about the casting class?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 12:48 pm:

Jerome
No seems to be interested. My goal is to keep learning to make things


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 07:01 pm:

Spent a few minutes working on to this afternoon. The thread for the stop in the plate is 1/2 24. Found that a rear bottom shock bolt has the right threads, but until I bring a camshaft over from storage tomorrow i'll have to wait to find out if it is long enough to reach. I'll have pictures tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Tuesday, April 01, 2014 - 01:09 am:

I started with a left over lower shock mounting bolt. Trimmed off the short threaded end, then cut a point on the end with the 1/2" - 24 thread. Because I would have had problems putting a knrel(sp) on it I went with shock rubbers for something to grip. Works great and am guaranteed that it will screw into the plate and have enough travel to hit the cam.



I also tried to get some idea how the cam gear goes on. I did read in the Snyder's catalog ( It came today, so I had to look thru it) that there is a special nut to hold on the came gear with the means to drive the gear? in pic #1 you can see the gear on with the grove towards the nut and the loose gear nut is beefier, Different years? Second pic is for reference showing the gear on the other way, still looking for a picture or information on the proper way to set this up. I'll be calling Snyder's tomorrow to check on the different nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, April 01, 2014 - 08:02 pm:

Jerome
I like your idea for a "line up" tool. Please keep updating us
Thx
Les


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Burg on Tuesday, April 01, 2014 - 08:27 pm:

John would be proud...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:01 pm:

Had a few minutes today. That means the brain worked overtime, let me lay it out for you and pick at your thoughts on my thoughts.

I removed the cam gear nut on the camshaft I had laying around. I cleaned it up and in the first pic you can see the nut with the nut I received with the front plate.



Because this fits under the front plate there is no need to worry about how the nut would/would not interfere with the spacing of the roller.

How ever my brain got to over-thinking the alinement. Now realize there are many things that line up.

New cam gear, the old stock one under the nut is .220", and I still have to measure the new one, in a stock T using a timer you would need a nut that is a bit thinner or shorter. These two nuts are different and because the gear needs to line up with the shaft in the plate it will need to sit in the right spot.

I ask what is the right spot? My way of thinking is centered, and with everything new I should be able to figure that out.

Pics 3&4



Ok, so my brain is still over-thinking, if the new tool I made a few days ago to thread into the hole in the front plate and is in the perfect center of the cam center-line then looking at the picture I can then think that the gear on the shaft that turns the distributor needs to be raised.
Now more thinking, why does the hole drilled in the front plate need to be in the very center of the camshaft to do the job of just acting as a end play / end thrust limiter to work? The way I think is you just need a nice flat surface to be screwed in to "kiss" the end of the cam.

Goal for tomorrow is to take a bare block, stick that cam in it, measure to the end of the cam, do some math to find where the gear for the cam "sits" on it. My quick math shows the center line of the shaft in the front plate is .8125 off the back surface so if I can place the gear so that it is centered on that plane.

I have then only one thing left to check. If you are at this point lost what that is, it the one that centers the vertical shaft gear in the center of the cam gear. This one might be only checked if I can see under the plate. Not possible but if I use a late block and flip it upside-down and without a crank in place there might be an angle where I can check/see the alinement.

Update to follow. J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 12:00 am:

The drive gear goes on the cam with the two notches toward the cam gear. The notched face should touch the shoulder on the cam. The stock nut is replaced with a special nut that has two mating notches that drive the gear. All the vendors sell this nut. I hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 12:10 am:

Dan, that's what I've figured out. The cheapness in me has/is making me make that nut out of the thicker one in the photo but with out a blueprint I have to figure it out my self. Can you answer this- my new gear, is it made thicker where the nut goes than the stock .220" that I found today?
j


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 06:44 pm:

As of now I only got a bit of measuring done. Here is what I found out.

Stock Ford cam gear is .250" thick and the back spacing is .100" My new gear has the same .100" back spacing but is .300" thick.

You'll see in the following pictures the two nuts, the Ford original is on the right. The difference in length shown in the picture as a difference in height is .040" and the difference in the thickness of the flange is also .040". So the nut is basically the same but for the that thickness. The way there are made is different as the original has a nice radius that transitions from one to the other. The thread on the inside goes of the old one does not go all the way through.

Afternoon tomorrow I'll get the cam in a block and have some pictures to post. J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Sunday, April 06, 2014 - 06:52 pm:

I did not get anything done today but picked up my new car trailer after I got done helping with breakfast at the Legion. Thought I did ok price wise.

https://www.purplewave.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?140402/AQ9980

Did get a late blocked loaded into the trunk for my trip to the shop in the am. Tomorrow more pictures. J


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