1912 Coil Box and Running Board questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1912 Coil Box and Running Board questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Quigley on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:04 am:

1. I am installing the Heinze coil box on a new firewall. Does the coil box sit flush against the firewall? If not, the porcelain insulators do not protrude enough for wire connections. Should i drill the holes deep enough to hold the mounting stud bosses?

2. Running board: Which if "forward" on 1912 running boards? The clipped end (on the vertical, longitudinal lip or the squared end? See sketch.

application/pdf
Running Board.pdf (19.3 k)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Quigley on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:11 am:

Correction
2. Running board:Which is "forward" on the 1912 running boards? The clipped end (on the vertical, longitudinal lip) or the squared end? See Sketch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:26 am:

The coil box sits flush against the firewall. Original dashes were drilled through big enough to accept the spacers (bosses) on the brackets. I've also seen the stud holes countersunk to accept the spacers. Either way, the box should fit against the firewall.
On the running boards, the clipped end is forward.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 01:49 pm:

The box itself is spaced a bit away from the dash by the thickness of the vertical brackets. Its the bosses that extend into the enlarged stud holes. I had to clear that up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Quigley on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 05:00 pm:

Thanks Richard, you confirm my suspicions. TQ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 05:22 pm:

The coilbox sits off the firewall by the brackets. I have photographed my old girl from the top to show you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 10:55 am:

I believe some of the mounting brackets have a boss on them, and your firewall will have to be counterbored to accomodate them. RV, comments?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 12:02 pm:

This is probably more than anyone wants to know, but OK: Here are 3 original early coilbox mounting brackets. L to R: 1909-10 Kingston, 1910 Jacobson-Brandow (studs are offset towards the center to accommodate the slightly larger box), and 1ate 1912-13 Heinze. The 1911-13 Kingston bracket is nearly identical to this Heinze; the 1911-early '12 Heinze bracket was the same except it used 3 flathead wood screws and was drilled and countersunk accordingly. The piece shown was riveted to the back of the box before assembly.

The early Kingston and the JBs are solid, cast brass; the earliest 1911 Heinze also were; the later Heinze and Kingstons were brass plated steel.


Anyway, the "boss" or "spacer" in question is indicated by the pen. On the cast Kingston bracket, it is an integral part of the casting; on all later brackets it is a separate piece, 9/16" diameter x 1/4" thick, that threads over the studs and butts up against the main body of the bracket. I don't think the dashes were counterbored for these; the holes were 9/16" all the way through. The studs' exit through the dash was completely covered by 1" diameter brass plated steel washers under the mounting nuts, which were 19/32" x 5/16" thick hex nuts with only one washer face. The earliest Kingston cast brackets may have used a smaller steel washer and much smaller steel hex nut of the same thread. Heinze brackets, spacers, studs, and nuts were always threaded 5/16" x 20, while all the others were the standard 5/16" x 18 tpi.

The 1913 K-W wood box did not use these spacers; the shanks of the bolts under the head are not threaded. I think but am not sure that the dash holes were drilled smaller but the same odd size nuts and washers were still used. If this is in fact the case with the dash, then no changes would have been needed for the changeover to the metal box in late '13.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 05:28 pm:

Ron is correct, I forgot to mention the counterbore to allow the bracket to fit flush. I believe the gap is to allow water to pass between the firewall and the coil box, Ron can probably add more here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 09:29 pm:

Who is Ron? I think I'm still correct on counter boring the dash for those brackets, NOT countersunk Richard!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Sunday, April 06, 2014 - 05:12 am:

Question # 2, your sketch is correct, angle to front to allow the front guards to fit without impact.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, April 06, 2014 - 02:35 pm:

The dashes were drilled 11/32 mounting hole and then counter bored as Larry said but with a 3/4" OD counter bore in 1912. On 3/12/12 the counter bore was removed and a 5/8" diameter hole was drilled clear thru since this was the beginning of when the dash became reversible for RHD and LHD. The wood coil box with the spacers could be mounted from either side when the dash was flipped over. They also at that point drilled 2 carb adjuster holes - one on each side. The unused one is hidden by the patent plate above the steering column on the "people" side of the dash and hidden by the hood former hiding the exit hole on the motor side of the dash. A large washer was used on the engine side to hide the 4 large coil box mounting holes. The dashes were not then vendor factory drilled with pilot holes for the dash shield guide since those pilot holes had to be drilled on the "people" side only and were then "dilled in place" by Ford.

The early 1913 dashes (first drawn on 7/18/12) also had the 5/8" Coilbox mounting holes drilled all the way through but that hole size was changed to 9/32 on 9/5/13. That hole size was changed from 9/32 to 19/64 on 4/4/14 "...to allow for swelling wood..."

Speed of assembly was very important now since the assembly line had begun.


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