Tubes loosing air

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Tubes loosing air
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David J. Holland on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 08:24 pm:

Two new brass stem tubes installed last October. Car on stands from then to now. Pressure from 60# to 20# over the winter. Anyone use the emergency tire fix spray stuff to seal the tubes? Does it work and if so what brand?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 09:01 pm:

They say 15 psi max is better for car on stands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Saitta on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 09:12 pm:

My brass stem tubes need to be pumped up about once a week. I just pump them up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 09:25 pm:

I think the new tubes are porous. I have 3 new tubes and one very old tube on the same car and the only one that doesn't require air weekly is the old tube. Has anyone thought of using nitro fill?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

I pumped up a couple small tubes from a mini bike a while back and found no leaks but over the winter they went flat. Why or how I dont know.No leak to find.
I wouldnt trust that fix a flat stuff.Makes a mess and is corrosive if it leaked out


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:22 pm:

Tubes have always leaked a few psi per week. Does not sound like yours are abnormal. Get used to airing them up before driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:56 pm:

The new tubes leak air a lot more than just a little over a period of time. They are junk and the dealers look the other way when you talk to them. I've bought most of my tires from Lucas and talked to the guys at Hershey last year. They either didn't want to admit the problem or they are sooooo far removed from the business that I didn't get any satisfaction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 04, 2014 - 11:59 pm:

Seeing this and realizing I haven't driven my touring since last summer, I just checked my tire pressures. After sitting for about eight months, the pressures were 25 (spare), 30, 48, 50, and 50. Mostly not bad for that long a sit. These are with brass stems. All tires will lose some pressure over time, but if you're losing pressure quickly, the culprit could be a leaky valve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 12:14 am:

The brass stems are now sandwiched between 2 rubber lips. The original brass stems were vulcanized to the tube.

These new cheapo tubes are born to fail. If you don't run full pressure the tubes will slide inside the tire and pull the brass stem out of the tube.

There is no practical way to seal these new stems to the tube. I use rubber bonded stems and then use the brass stem covers designed to work with a rubber stem, problem solved.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 12:54 am:

Check carefully to see if he leak is around the valve stem. Not the schrader valve itself but where the brass stem enters the rubber stem.

3 of my 4 were leaking there. A single turn of stainless safety wire twisted snug will cut those leaks to almost nothing, some use little hose clamps.

If you use the safety wire, you can bend the twisted part to lay along the stem and cover it with black heat shrink tubing to make the repair hard to see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 05:50 am:

I have one tube while out of the tire laying on the garage floor it went flat twice, I mounted it 3-4 months ago aired it up to 55# put it on the car it hasn't leaked down sense.... Explain that one to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 08:04 am:

I check mine everytime before I drive. I try to keep them around 55psi and they are usually around that or a little less. One rear tire is always low, usually between 45-50psi. It was purchased later than the other tires and the valve stem is brass but a little shorter. It takes FOREVER for it to get pumped back up. I don't know if it's the design of the valve or what.

Anyway, the for the clincher tires to stay on the rim, they need to be inflated to high pressure. So I'm always checking them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 09:12 am:

My 3 tires with 49 year old tubes held 55 psi over the winter.
The one with a new tube dropped to about 25.
The new tube must be designed to help with climate equalization LOL.

So much for new being better :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 09:38 am:

If the tube is not leaking at the valve core. (check it every time you put in air) Either "spit" on it or use a little dish washing soap. I have used the "green slime" type "fix-a-flat" with good results. Some people say after using the sealers that you can not get a patch to stick to the tube, because the sealer softens the rubber. I have not had any trouble with patches after using the "green slime"sealer. I just make sure the sealer is away from the hole as good as I can get it, and then clean the tube well before applying the patch. Just for a test I would try the sealer in the worst of the leakers only, and see how you like it... I use the "green slime" for tube type tires from Wal Mart .....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 09:42 am:

Steve: I'm going with a bum valve not sealing properly at first. There's no way a leak through a hole in the rubber would seal itself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 09:45 am:

Schrader valves often leak a bit too.

Whether you use brass stems or rubber stems, you can reduce leakage quite a bit by using a metal pressure cap on the end of the stem as seen here. The black rubber dust caps don't hold pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 10:39 am:

First of all, the brass stems were not vulcanized to the tubes. Take a look at the correct metal stems that Royce posted above, and tell me how they would be vulcanized? Second, the new brass stemmed tubes are completely wrong. If you want to do it right, go get some originals. I have them on my cars, and they hold air for a long time, and don't leak much. I checked my tires yesterday, and two of them were down 3 lbs, and one was down 5 lbs.I haven't checked them since the last tour back in February. Go figure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Saturday, April 05, 2014 - 12:41 pm:

For whatever it's worth: I've got the old-fashioned brass-valve tubes on my rear wheels and I guess they're pretty old, so they may be the vulcanized type. They'll lose maybe ten pounds over the winter. My front wheels have the modern, skinny, rubberized air valves and they'll also lose a few pounds. I guess inner-tubes are like that (and I never had a bicycle with tires that didn't exhale just about all their air over the course of several months).

I don't know whether the pressure loss has something to do with lack of use, but either way, I just shrug, plug in an electric pump and bring the Flivver's front tires up to 55 and the rears up to 65. Tinkering, tightening, adjusting, greasing and oiling are therapeutic exercises, which, when done out in the open air on a sunny day, feel nothing but good, especially if a buddy keeps me company.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, April 06, 2014 - 09:38 am:

Bob,

Like Steve said, old valve stems were NOT vulcanized to the tubes. If your metal valve stems are vulcanized to the tubes they are at least post - WWII. Originals bolt to the tubes, and were intended to be installed after cutting off the rubber stems.

Another easy way to spot original valve stems - they are nickel plated brass. More modern ones, say the past 50 - 60 years, are just brass with no nickel plating.

Original valve stems for 1909 - 1916 (maybe later too) had a small stem on the front wheels and a larger one on the rear::


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 12:36 am:

It appears many comments are focused on the valve stems. In my case the tubes were the more common rubber stems. The tubes LEAK through the cheap rubber (if that is still what they are made of). Lift a new tube and then one that is five years or more old. You can't help but notice the difference in weight. The new tubes oooze air through the rubber as I cannot detect air bubbles when I soak the inflated tubes yet when in the tire and inflated to 55-60 pounds the air escapes down to 45 in a month. Just saying.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 02:29 am:

All of my tubes loose air over that period, some more than others. For that period of time and air temp those numbers look pretty good.
David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 04:25 am:

Answering this subject is akin to is the cup half full or empty.

Over the period of time tubes have been used there have been many variations and those available now are at the far end of good quality.

First, the original metal stems which clamp on were way before a rubber stems was used. No need to remove the rubber stem the tube was produced with a hole and the stems were attached as one does by removing the rubber stem now.

Metal stems were vulcanized on later. With the advances in tire types and design new and cheaper solutions were found to cater for the buyer. I think if it was possible to collect all the different tubes we have been offered the last 100 years we would find a large number of tubes with many variations such as cross section size, diameter, thickness of material type of rubber and valve quality.

I know I have old tubes which are far larger in cross section than some I have purchased recently.
Which means they fill the tire with less stretching than smaller sectioned ones. Add to that thinner thickness and one tube is filling the tire with little stretching and another is stretching the rubber till its possibly razor thin.

As to rubber type, tubes which were on the market 50 years ago were made out of an entirely different rubber. vulcanizing patches stuck properly and were guaranteed to hold now some rubbers are so different a vulcanized patch won't stick at all and often glued ones fail. Some tubes now contain no rubber but are completely synthetic and may be of a size that is only close to the right measurements to one that would be made for the sizes of our tires.

The last 5 tubes I have purchased on 2 were the same brand/make/size. the others all different to each other.

My 1911 has 3 tubes which are 40 plus years old (metal stems) the other about 30 years. The car is in a museum has been for 2 years they have 60psi normally none are less than 55psi now.

Having had 3 blow outs on the Kamper where the tube actually exploded resulting in tubes with a large split upon examination the tubes were poor quality thickness varying from 1mm to 2.5mm (approx) around the tube. Add to that rubber (or what ever it is) that is not completely airtight composition and valve stems that appear to be not designed for the pressures we need to use and we all have a problem but it appears as a customer we are not large enough in numbers for the suppliers to offer us anything more than something they can purchase for a cheap price and maximum profit for themselves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 08:48 pm:

I have been tempted to try the nitrogen in my 21's as they have always leaked down. Nitrogen supposedly has larger atoms therefore not as likely to leak through the rubber. Here it's about five bucks per tire. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 09:00 pm:

Don't forget, air is already 78% Nitrogen. When I got new tires for my daily driver (a 2007 Honda Element) last year, the tire shop inflated them with Nitrogen. I personally have not noticed any difference in their pressure holding ability compared to the original tires that were inflated with air.

If anyone else has a different experience with Nitrogen inflated tires, I would be interested in hearing about it, thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 11:38 pm:

If one spend $5 a tire to inflate with nitrogen, then someone's pockets are inflating rapidly while the other one's are deflating at the same rate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 08:28 am:

Ted, that is what I have been thinking. Guess I'm to skeptical to try it(and to tight). KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Voss on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 08:45 am:

Nitrogen started on race cars because the presser does not change as much as air with heat. So it is silly to use it on a street car. Just remember what P.T. said.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 05:38 pm:

Reference this thread's title: I went to a hot rod swap meet last weekend. First one I've ever attended. They're a different breed. Lucked out and bought 4 of the best 21" Ford wire wheels I've ever seen for $250. Anyway, I enjoyed seeing the clubs together in their identifying t shirts and ball caps but noticed their club names were mostly self-depricating. They strode together with names like 'Villains', 'Demons', 'Misfits' and 'Felons'. Then I saw it . . . . .6 guys walking together down the swap meet aisle with silkscreened t bucket hot rods on their t shirts under their club name . . . . wait for it . . . . 'Loosers'
I just had to LOL at them- then run like hell


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 05:48 pm:

George, now that is funny! I wonder how "loose" they were? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, April 09, 2014 - 08:54 pm:

Another note on reproduction vulcanized valve stems. The O.D. is the next size larger than what is supposed to be used on a T. I believe this size is currently used on trucks, and in years past, on much larger cars than a Ford. Remember too, folks in the '20s didn't drive as fast as we do now, so the weight factor enters the picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 01:27 pm:

Haven't been doing much with the T lately because of all my stupid injuries, but yesterday a buddy dropped by, so I had a little help and we did a little spring-cleaning and housekeeping on the car.

One of the things we did was check the inflation of the tires which, at the end of autumn, was 60-65 psi at the rear and 55 psi up front (and my gauge is accurate within 6 pounds). We found that in spite of looking fully inflated and feeling hard, all the tires were holding about 20 pounds of air, so the pressure loss over a few months of inactivity is considerable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 02:05 pm:

to say nothing of muscle loss after extended periods of inactivity.....
glad to read that you're moving about more & more !


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