Anyone notice the generation gap with T repair?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Anyone notice the generation gap with T repair?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 02:52 pm:

Many young folk now throw away a power tool when all that is wrong with it is a cord end.
Some pull out the plastic run there cost of living up then can not think of how you make far less green on retirement but live in a better life style with no debt!
I am venting a little but am tired of fixing neighbors broken items or borrowing my tools when some care little about bringing them back.
It seems like if a button push of a PC wont fix it then buy a new one!
What comes around goes around!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 03:38 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 05:02 pm:

as most of you know by now, I work on Player Pianos and the new player units are all electrical and work with I-pads, etc. Figured I'd better 'larn' about them, so I can fix 'em when I get 'that call'--and maybe the local piano shop will want me to install some too. Well, the company asks all sorts of questions about your piano servicing background, which seemed normal, and valid. Took the class this week (4 days of 9 hours of instructions) and one thing I became very aware is that they should have asked what background we had in metal working, wood working, problem solving and electrical knowledge! Most of us in the class had no problem with all the training, but I was amazed at the amount of creativity and attention to detail required to do an install, including making new parts to work the pedals that fit around and to the player stack (all the coils that play each key of the piano). Definitely not "new school" skills! Kinda looking forward to doing an install to see what "work arounds" I will come up with! BTW, this is no small investment; the units cost $3K plus, and take about 18-24 hours to install (if you are experienced at it!).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 09:27 pm:

David, I have a player piano I bought at an auction a couple of years ago. Eventually I'll get around to trying to make it work. Are there any books on how to repair or restore?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 09:37 pm:

For a couple years I restored leaded stained glass windows. I worked on church windows and some very old windows out of some houses built in the 19th century. I have also repaired several of the prairie/panel and Tiffany style lamps. I get concerned when I think that the skills I learned and developed could easily die with me and a few other craftsmen. All the beauty in this world will be lost and replaced with something much more efficient at controlling temperatures, and cost less to maintain and turn all the true beauty in this world into drab, square, lifeless crap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 10:22 pm:

There is such a large wealth of knowledge on just about any subject on this forum. It might only be one small area for any one person but I find it interesting and relaxing that the forum is far and away my favorite place to visit!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 10:33 pm:

Steve,
Yes, most out of print, but Amazon usually has a selection, and usually cheaper than any on eBay. Larry Given's book, "Rebuilding the Player Piano" is a good all-around Intro & how to book. The web site Player-care.com is a great resource too.
Mike, I'm not worried about stained glass techniques dying, as lots of folks are interested in it as a hobby. I found some great craftsman period cabinet doors at a yard sale & I'm now incorporating them into my living room remodel (I was going to do something similar to these, now they'll be even nicer and old to boot!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, April 11, 2014 - 11:55 pm:

David, Bought this dresser at a G sale. Cut eight inches in length off and added four inches in depth. You could see where it was tied to a wagon. Wood is ash construction is 1800 hand tools. Makes a nice touch in a small bath.
It does help to be a cabinet maker. vintage cabinetvintage cabinet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 01:56 am:

Paul,
Very nice! Yes, it does help to be a good woodworker. I don't know where I picked it up, seems like I've done it all my life. In High School my art teacher said he'd give me an A on a painting I did if I made a frame for it. No problem!! Even made an engraved brass plate for it. A few years later my Aunt was having her kitchen remodeled, and the "cabinet maker" doing it couldn't make new windowed doors for her plate cabinets--her china plates were very special to her and she liked to show them off. The cabinets were being done in oak (old ones were painted), so I took her old ones home, replicated them in oak (only power tool I had was a table saw!) and took them back to install--Yikes, the cabinets were just pine with an oak stain! Oh well, she liked them, but I wondered about that 'cabinet maker's" qualifications!
When I was at that yard sale, I hated to see those craftsman built in cabinet doors separated from their house, but I figured out what happened, as two of them are termite damaged! They'd already destroyed the other parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 10:24 am:

I spent almost a year restoring a player piano, which included planing wood to the correct thickness and cutting from it, each of the bellows halves, drilling the 1/2" hole in one half of each of the 88 bellows, covering each of the bellows with bellows cloth using old fashioned hide glue, mounting each of the new bellows on the vacuum box, running new hoses and refinishing the piano. Next to hearing my Model T start for the first time after working on it for 2 years, that player piano provided me with the next greatest thrill upon hearing it play "Maple Leaf Rag" for the first time. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 11:20 am:

As to the question: About 20 years ago I was discussing T's with my Uncle. In his 80's at the time and an auto mechanic all his life. I was amazed to hear he'd never worked on a T. In his own words "I never drove a Planetary". As a kid Model A's were the thing and it went forward from there. Very few were looking back by then because of the T's perceived antiquity. So your generation gap started around 1930! Grandfathers today with Grandchildren interested in T's with their own kids possibly not interested? It's been happening for 100 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 02:15 pm:

Part of what I meant Charlie is the younger generation for the most part do not care to or want to learn basic mechanical, electrical or building experience so necessary for saving the cost of repair or replacement if you are on a budget buying a home or a car.

Schools now are closing the shops and auctioning off nice machinery. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor or a scientist, Someone has to know how to make the parts and machines necessary for the doctors and scientists.

Today I picked up a two inch like new Bostich pin nailer for 5.00 its a hundred dollar high quality gun made in Japan. The owner was not able to remove a jammed nail in the gun. Five minuets took care of it, That's what I meant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 03:28 pm:

Jim,
Yep, congrats!! I can't wait until I finish my Welte reproducing Piano and hear Gershwin play on MY piano! Likely be a few years, as not only does the player need rebuilding, so does the piano!
Glad to hear you used hide glue, the ONLY way to do the job right & still allow it to be rebuilt again (probably by someone else, as we'll both be long gone by then!!) :-)
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 05:47 pm:

Paul:

As an educator, I couldn't agree with you more. Kids need a creative outlet, whether it be music, art, woodshop, welding, etc. It is sad that these extremely valuable programs are going away.

The main reason why these programs are going away is because the school districts cannot afford the lawsuit if a kid cuts off his finger on a saw or burns himself with a torch. Enabling parents are the cause of this. Accidents happen - even to the best of us. Educators and districts try to put in the best policies to ensure a child's safety, but there is always the idiot who knows better, gets hurt, then has a parent who immediately jumps up to sue the district for all that they are worth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 07:40 pm:

David, there really is a lot of interest in stain glass but it's all done using the foil technique and not to many are willing to take on lead came. Foiling and solder is nice stuff but it's a pretty basic technique and good for Christmas ornaments and stuff to hang on a string or fish leader in a window. However actual full leaded windows are at a different level of expertise. A lot of the repair work was fun but designing and building windows is a whole different kettle of fish. And trust me after working a few years in a glass studio and being involved with teaching glass classes most of the people out there making trinkets and Christmas ornaments are far from being capable of doing a decent job of utilizing even the foil technique of working with stained glass.

I have taken on many hobbies in my life I went from my own wood shop into a cabinet shop to designing and building furniture. I trained and worked in machine shops as a machinist. I've done oil painting and sold my work and tried some stuff I should have stayed away from. But the one thing I've done since I was a very small boy is work on greasy old engines, transmissions and rear axles. It's always been part of my life. I started out with 85 hp Ford flatheads and 216 cu. in. Inline 6 cylinder chevrolets. When the small block Chevys were popular we were squeezing 400 hp out of the 327 cu in blocks. From that I went backward to flatheads and then Model T's. And I've got to say the most wonderful car ever made is the Model T Ford. It takes a special ability to drive one, repair one and be willing to live at the easy going speed of a Model T. And it worries me to think we're going to lose a lot of those abilities because there are no LED screens in an old model t ford and without it the young people aren't going to be interested. On the other hand within 10 miles of my house there are at least 5 or 6 guys under the age of 35 that own and do their own work on their Model T's. So I guess maybe the hobby still stands a chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 09:21 pm:

My mentor a master German craftsman I worked for after school and weekends Told me something I have found very true " people are like cogs on a gear, some fit in early and do well others never find how they fit but they are good at something so what ever you try do the very best you can and you will succeed"
The very best apprentices I had in my building career had one thing in common, They all showed an eager attitude.
They are still friends after three decades.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 09:57 pm:

Mike,
Sounds like we have similar backgrounds--although you managed to make money doing it! Interestingly, I thought the lead canning was easier! But I wonder now where one can get any new?
Ah yes, quality of workmanship. . . . Won't go there! :-) (but I will admit to calling most of the "crafts fairs" I see around here "crap fairs" Heh heh heh.
There's only one guy around here under 35--but he's doing so much stuff (including steam) that he probably counts for at least 3 guys!
Paul,
Very wise words indeed! Some of us needed to be "lapped in" for a while before we fit--oh wait, I'm thinking I fit now----
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, April 12, 2014 - 10:47 pm:

We are short of jobs in the United States, but we have things going without repair because people are not learning the basics. It would be good to learn some of these skills in case one can't get a job in the preferred field, he can find work to do in the mean time. It is also good to be a do it yourselfer. However, some things are so complicated it is less expensive to replace rather than to repair. This is so for newer cars, TV's and even color printers. Some of the ink cartridges for the computer printer cost as much as a new printer!
Etc.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 10:05 am:

Norm, that last line is so true... I actually bought a better printer from one of the big box stores for less than the price of a cartridge for the old printer. OK it was a huge sale but still.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 12:16 pm:

You are right in my opinion Norm. New operating systems often wont work on old printers. And some of the ink cartridges can not be refilled after they are empty without sticking a new cartridge in to reset the printer.
Frugal as I am the tricks on the work around have been tried. Kids come over and use up ink. Think I will send them a bill LOL! G sales often have a supply of the unused ink cartridges or refill kits for pennies on the dollar. Ink on the internet has worked OK.
My tin can Tercel at 35 mpg is a favorite to run around in. No power anything and simple to fix.
Look at Costco on flat screen TVs etc. for a few hundred and up! I am not to proud to buy an old style for 5.00 or free at a G sale. The green saved might buy the T parts I want!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 12:45 pm:

Even in the same age group I see a gap in what people can do and fix. The water valve in my washer froze and cracked. The new one was over a hundred bucks so I bought 2 part plastic cement for about $8 and repaired the crack. Ok it took 3 time on and off to get it done, but so far knock on wood. :-)
They don't make money on the printers, it's made on the refill kits or cartridges. I have an older HP Deskjet, the black cartridge is almost $40, I didn't even check the price on the color! On sale a new Cannon is about the same or less in price as just the black cartridge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin Konrad on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 01:20 pm:

Two of my most-favorite quotes...
Albert Einstein: "We are limited only by the depth of our own imagination." (And)
Charles Osgood: "The only problem with common sense is that it is not all that common."
The challenge to repair something does help keep the agility of one's own mind. Sure do agree with you on those cartridges & printers, though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 01:43 pm:

Kind of ticks you off Mark when your new high end gas range knobs go south breaking the connection in the middle with to little plastic for support. After buying the first one at 30.00 the Devcon came out building up the unseen rear for the next three that broke.
Folks at a moving sale sold me a nice high end stainless tub front load washer and dryer for 175. they are idling in the garage for backup!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 02:27 pm:

Gas range knobs? You mean the ones with the painted markings that wear off so you can't see the settings? Such brilliant design...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 03:07 pm:

I thought that was what they made vise-grips for....

knob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 03:38 pm:

http://failblog.cheezburger.com/thereifixedit


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 03:51 pm:

LOL Mark! Thought it was the same as mine fixed a few months past. Not so but wonder if its the same brand.
Bride ran a commercial laundry she is used to shutting doors and drawers with her foot elbow or posterior. Built her a kitchen with thirty five very heavy duty full extension drawers some deep enough for a cereal box she still can load them over the top!
Sorry with the thread drift but it is fun to know others are dealing with the same issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 05:06 pm:

Keep in mind that many of the printers that are sold at these
bargain prices come with trial sized ink cartridges, not the
full size that you expect of a new cartridge that is purchased separately.
Also a few of the printers using high priced cartridges have the print head
in the cartridge, not in the printer, giving you a new print head with each
cartridge change.
Iím not sure if they still do but some of the older HP printers had two sizes
of black cartridges available, both using the same part number but with the
exception of the 42ml size being a part nbr. 51645A while the nbr. 51645 had
(as I remember) 19ml. The package however only showed a large number 45
predominately unless you looked for the fine print.
Many retailers only carried the smaller one making you think you were getting
a bargain. Of course you know which one came in a new printer.
The ones that really annoy me are the printers that refuse to print black when
any of the color cartridges are empty, and can even recognize 'after market'
cartridges and refuse to work with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Erfert on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 06:37 pm:

Yesterday I took a perfectly good band saw made by a famous name back in the 1940's that had no safety features but parts are still available, to a friends house as he loves old tools. He has even made a forge so he can make tools he can't buy or need to be fixed. He will make use of the saw and he has offered to teach me how to use the forge. He also said if there is anything that needs to be fixed on our T he will help me with that. He is about 35 and does not throw away stuff that can be fixed or made useful elsewhere. His wife agrees with him and knows they are saving money and not filling the landfills. The Amish do this with broken implements until there is nothing left. Some people don't like my "lawn decorations" but they come in handy when I need parts to fix broken things when the need arises. Nuff said.
Dick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 07:54 pm:

David, I was lucky enough to work under an artist that had been working with glass his entire life and had his own studio for 35 years. Lead came is easy to work with and does a good job as long as you stretch it properly. Some of the leaded windows are easy to build and repair as long as all the pieces are square. But when you become involved with designs containing a lot of complex curves it can be a little rough. But if you make your design and working copies right the odds are the pattern pieces will come out just fine. There's very little money to be made designing, building and selling windows unless you do it as custom work for someone that has a specific need. The custom work on some of the bigger windows can run into thousands of dollars. The best money is made repairing antique windows. I hate to say it because you feel like you could be struck down at any minute, the best money is made on church windows. Especially if you've got a stash of antique glass for those windows that are from the 19th and early twentieth centuries. Chicago has 2 or 3 wholesale suppliers for everything that has to do with glass. We did most of our business with Ed Hoy. If your ever on the west side of Chicago try to get a tour of his facility. They don't manufacture the glass but are able to match just about any pattern, color or texture you'd ever want. They also sell a great selection of tools.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Sunday, April 13, 2014 - 09:01 pm:

Funny you should mention printers My HP printer started leaving a heavy line down each scanned copy in pdf mode. I called my computer man and explained the problem. He said today's printers cost more to repair than new ones so I should just toss my printer and buy a new one. This is against my nature as I like my printer and except for the line down the middle of each copy scanned though the feeder, it works fine, especially printing photographs. Anyway, I decided to see if I could find the problem. I started fiddling with the feeder and found a door that popped open and upon further investigation, I discovered a mirror that had a glob of some sort of sticky substance on the mirror which I was able to gently rub off with alcohol on a cotton cloth. Voila! The printer works perfectly now and I saved $150.00. I told my computer guy and couldn't help rubbing in in a bit. Common sense and perseverance beats book sense and complacency everytime. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, April 14, 2014 - 12:56 am:

Mike,
Somewhere in my stuff are a few boxes of stain glass supplies and some stained glass from 35+ years ago when I dabbled in it. I made one lamp shade for my sister, very plain design--hmm, wonder what happened to it? My first project was repairing some leaded glass windows in a craftsman building that had cracked because the door shook that one window (probably termites in the wall!). Except for the craftsman period homes around here, not much demand for Church window repair & AFAIK, not much demand for either! Sorta like piano tuning. . .
T'ake care,
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, April 14, 2014 - 07:19 pm:

It is strange how things are. The economy is bad.But yet, in the past week I have been given 7 lawnmowers that all but 1 just need fuel system repairs. 1 came from the local farm co op and just needs the carb cleaned 2012 push mower that will take about 30 minutes to fix.
people would rather spend money or swipe the lexan and just get another 1 instead of fixen what they have.
Alls well for me though.I will repair them and sell them myself in a couple weeks.
make some side cash for T project! :>)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Tuesday, April 15, 2014 - 06:34 am:

I hate to throw away items that might be repaired. I rebuilt a bench vice that had a stripped thread by using the drive from a scissor-style car jack. Whenever possible I repair, remake or modify to get more use from things. Recently the hinge on my spectacles broke. Very difficult to repair as the hinge itself had shattered, however I hunted and found an old pair of specs., that had the same size and shape lenses. A soak in warm water, and I was able to swap the good lenses to the old frame.

As for printers and inks, I would suggest investigating Continuous Inking Systems that can be bought (after market)for some printers. My wife and I started using such a system in our printers at least 7 years ago, and have gone through more than 500ml of each of 5 colours and probably a litre of black, with the price being a very small fraction of the cost of cartridges.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, April 15, 2014 - 12:20 pm:

The throw away generation makes you wonder!

Generator paid 60.00 no compression so new and not broke in an intake valve was stuck removed valve cover taped the valve stem with a brass hammer--two hours for a 700.00 generator.

2 1/2" finish nail gun like new jammed nail 5.00 took a few minuets to repair. 160.00 new

Television and cabinet 65.00 still working fine after five years not a flat screen though!

Front load stainless tub washer and dryer nothing wrong with it. 175.00 somewhere over a thousand new.buying for a dealbuying for a dealb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Thursday, April 17, 2014 - 01:57 am:

Steve, check with Martin, he's worked and rebuilt them.


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