T Transmission Brake Drum Differences?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: T Transmission Brake Drum Differences?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, April 19, 2014 - 04:36 pm:

Today I'm working on my transmission and the brake drum that I was going to use has notches where the clutch disc ride. Not bad but I thought I might try to find a better one.

Looking through my stash of parts I got with my car and I found a new brake drum unfortunately G'pa didn't preserve it and it's coated with rust. Not bad I think I can use it if I clean it up.

My question is it does not look like the one I was going to use. I think it's for an early car. It has smaller openings and a ring around where the clutch discs lugs are.

Can anyone shed some light on the two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, April 19, 2014 - 05:19 pm:

Remind us of what year you are working on(update your profile would help). Sounds like a 25 and earlier brake drum.
If it;s just coated with rust, a good bead (not sand or hard media) blasting should clean it up. Plug or protect the bushing area and follow with a good wash and air blow dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, April 19, 2014 - 07:28 pm:

I was going to use a 22 transmission that I got complete with the car. The original has issues. So the brake drum that has the notches is the 22.

The other brake drum came in one of many boxes of parts I received with my 16 coupelet. It is as described above. My quess it is for a pre 17 car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 10:36 am:

The earlier style brake drums use a distance plate, and do look different than the later design. Also, in 1926, the lugs were rotated to the same location as the large drums, and shoes were added. This change either meant using the improved driving plate, or filing the holes slightly to fit the redesigned drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 10:59 am:

How about some pictures?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 06:58 pm:

Early drum is on the left. Notice the flanged bushing. The late drum has the standard sleeve style.






(Message edited by adminchris on April 22, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Sunday, April 20, 2014 - 07:14 pm:

The drum on the left is what I found in my parts stash, looks NOS. My drum does not have the bronze flange, it's steel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Monday, April 21, 2014 - 10:43 pm:

Anyone?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 11:03 am:

Yes it is earlier. Your Grandpa may have installed a new bushing in for future use. You may need the thicker thrust washer to setup the proper clearance for drum to drive plate. The replacement bushing is just a standard brake drum bushing as the flanged type was made obsolete and no longer supplied.
You will/may also need the thicker distance plate that goes on the bottom of the clutch disk stack. It looks like 3 standard disks welded together. If not used the bottom disk will/may slide under the lugs of the drum and jam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 12:18 pm:

Thanks for the info Mark, is there any advantage to either one over another? The earlier drum is new but has some pitting on the shaft which will need some polish work. While the older drum I have has a good shaft but the lugs for the clutch discs are worn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 04:03 pm:

The drum on the right, with the lug shoes, looks like T-709-AR (from 1925/26) where they modified the original drum to use the replaceable shoes.

T-709-AR

That should get rid of the scoring you found on the earlier drum. I think they later modified it a bit more so that the lugs and bolt holes were not together. That made the drum stronger.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 04:28 pm:

In place of the flanged bushing, you can use the one you've got plus two of the later thrust washers and one of the thin, spring steel adapter washers. Stack them all up together. Both are sold by most of the vendors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 05:16 pm:

What lug shoes ???? Boy, I better get stronger glasses !!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 05:35 pm:

Steve,

When they came out with the lug shoes on the larger brake drum for 1926 they also upgraded the early drum to be able to use the shoes. The original early drum can not use the shoes. Without the shoes, the lugs are much smaller than the slots in the disks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 05:49 pm:

I understand what you are attempting to explain - I've been playing with T's for over 40 years and am quite versed in it's operation. I have several of the '25 brake drums that take the replaceable lug shoe and Ford didn't "upgrade"- the narrow drum with shoes came out first - it is described in the Ford Service Bulletins. I'm just saying there doesn't appear to be any lug shoes on the drum pictured above on the right !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 07:30 pm:

This is an NOS 26-27 drum with the lugs intact:

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 08:38 pm:

Well I rummaged around in the box with the trans parts and found a new set of discs (large & small) along with with what I call a pressure plate. But I did not find a thicker distance plate as you guys mention.

I did also find a near new reverse drum but it wasn't protected with oil and has a good amount of rust on it. I've got it in the electrolysis tank we'll see how it cleans up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 09:16 pm:

Notice that 1926-27 drum also has a grove cut around the inside to keep those lug clips from sliding off.


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