Radiator year i.d.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Radiator year i.d.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 04:01 pm:

trying to establish a year for a brass radiator i acquired recently. it has a high neck, which has 3 rivets on it, does not have "made in usa" below the ford script, does have a tube with flared ends soldered across the bottom inside of the core. does not have any holes in side panels, does have ford serial number tag on top tank. the ford script is not as sharp as is my 1911 original radiator. the top construction is exactly like my 1911 and not like my repro radiator, i.e. the seam construction.
i'm all ears, thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 04:42 pm:

1911 - 1912


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 05:47 pm:

what i find confusing is that the mtfca guidelines state that neither the 11 or 12 had rivets in the long neck and that the 13 and 14 was a short neck with "made in usa" and rivets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 07:42 pm:

Maybe a later neck on an early radiator. It's 102 years old, probably was repaired several times.

The "Made in USA" appears in late calendar year 1912, during the beginning of 1913 model year. Same for holes to allow the gas tubing to pass through the brass shell. Absence of those features means it is earlier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 11:01 pm:

From the encyclopedia: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#rad
"Beginning in about October, 1911, the drawings indicate holes for the rivets which now secured the filler neck to the top tank. (--) “Made in USA” under “Ford” script was added about April 16, 1912."

So your radiator would fit most of the 1912 model year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 12:24 am:

Stu-
What is the number on the radiator?

My original 102 year old radiator did not cool effectively last summer in Utah.
My reproduction radiator seems to do the trick.

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 06:33 am:

thank you all..........the rivets are definitely factory...keith, the number on the tag is 112500.
the number on my original 11 radiator tag is 51204.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 08:09 am:

also, when did the gas tube appear on the bottom of the radiator? thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 08:27 am:

See the encyclopedia link again,
"In mid-1912 holes were added in the sides for the gas lamp hose, with a soldered-in-place pipe from side to side for the headlamp gas. “Made in USA” under “Ford” script was added about April 16, 1912."

Further down more details: "
What is more on November 28, 1911 another note states: “Moved rivet and soldering holes for filler flange, 30 (degrees) about center of hole for filling flange. This brings one of the rivet holes on center line of radiator, at the rear side of filling flange, making the other two rivet holes located symmetrically about the same center line.” The Model T had symmetry, but not style.

In 1912 holes were added in the radiator for the gas lines. On June 13, 1912 a note on the release for T-1139-B Radiator Left Wall reads: “Added .5” punched hole for gas lamp hose, the hole to be located 3.5” from front edge of plate, and 11 7/8” from top end.” A few days later on June 17, 1912 a second note reads: “In FL#316 we were advised of .5” holes for Gas Lamp Tubes, being punched in certain pieces. To do away with the sharp edges of metal which would soon cut the tubes, we have called for a 3/32” flange around the hole — the metal being flanged in the direction that will bring to the inside of walls, when same are assembled to radiator. To be sure that the latest print reaches everyone concerned, date has been corrected to read 6-17-12”.”"


So this may be odd if the "made in USA" text was added in april and the gas line didn't appear until june? Maybe they had a lot of parts for upper tanks to use up until the new ones with "Made in USA" came on all radiators?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 08:27 am:

See the encyclopedia link again,
"In mid-1912 holes were added in the sides for the gas lamp hose, with a soldered-in-place pipe from side to side for the headlamp gas. “Made in USA” under “Ford” script was added about April 16, 1912."

Further down more details: "
What is more on November 28, 1911 another note states: “Moved rivet and soldering holes for filler flange, 30 (degrees) about center of hole for filling flange. This brings one of the rivet holes on center line of radiator, at the rear side of filling flange, making the other two rivet holes located symmetrically about the same center line.” The Model T had symmetry, but not style.

In 1912 holes were added in the radiator for the gas lines. On June 13, 1912 a note on the release for T-1139-B Radiator Left Wall reads: “Added .5” punched hole for gas lamp hose, the hole to be located 3.5” from front edge of plate, and 11 7/8” from top end.” A few days later on June 17, 1912 a second note reads: “In FL#316 we were advised of .5” holes for Gas Lamp Tubes, being punched in certain pieces. To do away with the sharp edges of metal which would soon cut the tubes, we have called for a 3/32” flange around the hole — the metal being flanged in the direction that will bring to the inside of walls, when same are assembled to radiator. To be sure that the latest print reaches everyone concerned, date has been corrected to read 6-17-12”.”"


So this may be odd if the "made in USA" text was added in april and the gas line didn't appear until june? Maybe they had a lot of parts for upper tanks to use up until the new ones with "Made in USA" came on all radiators?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 12:40 pm:

a couple of pics of the subject radiator

rad i.d.

rad i.d.


(Message edited by adminchris on April 23, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 12:47 pm:

a couple more pics

rad i.d.

rad i.d.

rad i.d.

rad i.d.


(Message edited by adminchris on April 23, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 01:26 pm:

I believe that is for 15 or early 16, it has MADE IN USA stamped as indicated in picture(arrow)
It has been recorded and there was the tube for electric wiring on lower back.. It was a gift from a friend in Anchorage Ak. and been hanging in his shop from about 1950. Am I in the correct ball park for year?

Bob.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 02:07 pm:

there is no stamped "made in usa" on this radiator.

my first thought was that the tube was for wire conduit, but nothing else added up. the ends of the brass tube are flared as if not to fray wire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 05:19 pm:

I would say you are correct 15/16, no holes ( that l can see) for the carbide generated gas to headlights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 08:40 pm:

Stu-
If it has the soldered-on acetylene cross-over tube, but no holes in the side panels, I'd say it is early-mid 1912.

Royce's Dec 1911 radiator on his 1912 car is number 102520.

Does any body know when was the "gentle sweep" acetylene cross-over tube eliminated?

I believe that Ford made replacement radiators that has the soldered-on cross over tube, but would those radiator have been numbered?

I wouldn't get into a big pissing match about if it is late 1911 or early 1912, as long as it looks good and cools well!

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 08:41 pm:

My late November 1911 radiator is 97152.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 07:08 am:

when did the gas tube first appear? i am not familiar with the "gentle sweep" cross over tube. my car has currently the cross over tubing going under the front of the pan. my intent is to make a correct for my car radiator out of my original and the one in question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 07:22 am:

Gas tube on the radiator appeared in late calendar year 1911. Engine serial numbers hit about 98000 at the end of December 1911.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 09:28 am:

thank you royce, just trying to get it right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 10:36 am:

Stu-
The "gentle sweep" cross over tube that I was referring to is for the entire acetylene lighting assembly. I would expect your car to have this type of set up:






Royce:
Which acetylene lighting assembly is on your car?

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By stuart clipson on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 12:18 pm:

keith.........yes it does have that system as your showing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 12:38 pm:

Keith,

My mistake, the gas tube on my 12 (reproduction) looks much like yours. No tube on the radiator and no holes in the shell.


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