New engine oil available 40-70

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: New engine oil available 40-70
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 04:02 am:

What a great idea, an engine oil that is thicker than normal for use in hot rods and older style engines.

That's where the great news ends.

My arm is just about ready to fall off ... not having a starter in my '13 Touring, l for the first time since finishing my rebuild and engine rebuild had to jack up the back wheel to start it..

I'm sure l will feel the ramifications from changing from a 20w40 or 20w50 to this 40-70 tomorrow morning when l attempt to get out of bed !!!!

Over night l will leave the park brake all the way forward and re-try to start it on all 4 wheels tomorrow - Hmmmmmmm .

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 06:32 am:

I wonder if maybe that may be to heavy for are already low powered engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 07:24 am:

I once came across some straight 70 weight oil that was designed for top fuelers. I actually tried it in my T in the faint hope that it might cure a mild bearing knock. It didn't help and in fact there was no noticeable effect at all. I did end up pulling the motor to fix the problem the right way. I have tried many brands and weights of oil and they all seem the same except I get less Model T creep with lighter oil. My current strategy is to run something cheap and change it very often.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyler searle on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 07:25 am:

In an engine with a splash-oiling system? I think not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 07:32 am:

Original Model T oil was similar to SAE20. 40W-70 might be fine for your rear axle or Warford transmission. It will cause oil starvation in your engine. Bad idea David. Sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 08:12 am:

I was wondering what weight oil they had back in the day.......I have been using SAE 30 non-detergent and it seems fine. With a splash system I have never thought that thick oil was good. On starting that fresh rebuild, if you are confident that the carb is adjusted right, pull starting can make life easier. With new rings etc the first start can take a bit of effort. If you pull the T at about 3-5 mph and leave the hood off for observation. Just step on the low speed pedal after you start moving and you can watch it turn over ..........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 09:17 am:

I use Penzoil 70W non detergent aircraft oil in my 74 CU Harley. ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 09:52 am:

Used 30 non-D for years until I tried a mid winter start one time. Went to 10-30 after I realised what was happening. Can't imagine what 40-70 would do besides creating a 4 wheel boat anchor in your garage from November to March.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 03:53 pm:

I'm awake and YES l can feel the effects of trying to turn that transmission with thick oil, it might be worth one more spin today to see if yesterdays 10 mile drive caused some softening, BUT, l believe l'm going back to 20 w 40...sooooon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 04:46 pm:

OH Dear !! even after 10 hours with the park brake all the way forward, my start attempt this morning still see's me pulling the car forward, Hmmm oil is now out and will be replaced with 20w40 .. live and learn.. it has the thickness to "stop oil leaks apparently " .. if the transmission wasn't swimming in there too, it would probably be the perfect oil ..

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 09:17 pm:

I added a Watts clutch and use 50wt Valvoline racing oil. I can easily spin the motor stone cold. The 50wt works great in all of my Babbitt bearing motors and it slows down the leak rate.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 07:11 am:

50 weight oil is fine if you live in Saudia Arabia or perhaps Death Valley for summer time use only. Way too thick for a splash / drip oil system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 12:56 am:

Has anyone else used ROTELLA 15-40? I just started using it and haven't found any negatives yet. It has reportedly more detergent and since it is mainly used in diesel I would think it has better viscosity capability for heat. Any comments??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 01:52 am:

I have used 15W-40 Rotella and "Wolfs Head" in the same weight. Works fine and leaks less than 5W-30. I think the key is use cheap and change often. I see guys who drive many more miles than I do swear by 5W-30, and some 20W-50. I have tried all the above and currently like 10W-40 or 15W-40, but am always willing to learn something different.

40-70 sounds like a great old black powder rifle cartridge, not a T oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 02:42 am:

Hi David,

If the 40w-70 oil you mention is made by Penrite it's been around for a while. Know a guy with a 1920s Fiat who's using it. Some cars did use such heavy oils back then but not Fords.

In Australia, for the hot summer we have I like the one below. Much cheaper than Penrite and still Aussie made; took this pic at my local supermarket today.

I used a cocktail of 20w-50 and monograde 40w for the hot to extremely hot summer weather of Africa and the Middle East. 5w-30 would be my choice for winter driving in North America or Europe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 05:35 am:

I use Rotella 15-40 in everything except Model T's and our modern car.The Modern car and T's get 5-30.I think much depends on where you live and if your a stem winder or grinder.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 07:25 am:

I have used the Rotella in everything I own for years, no complaint, T always starts right up. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 08:23 am:

I just switched from 5w30 to Rotella 15w40. I figure it must be good if big rig engines use it. It certainly leaks less than 5w30.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 11:21 am:

The oil Constantine uses says SG right on the front of the container.
SG is the latest designation that has enough zink for flat tappet engines with high valve spring pressures.
It is also light enough for use in mild to hot climates in a T and other engines.
If someone sold 25-60 with zink in the U.S. they would sell plenty, make money and have nothing to bitch about. Then the government would stop them from producing it because some unsuspecting driver might accidently add some to a modern car with a catalytic converter and shorten the life of the cat. by 10 minutes and endanger the lives of the bellow yelleyed stump rats.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 03:14 am:

Get'em Aaron !! "Save the Stump Rats!!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 06:26 am:

70 weight in a T? that goes in old Harleys that pee on their chains all the time!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Spencer Vibert on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 10:22 am:

I use strait 30 nondetergent it work fine for me


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 06:25 pm:

If heavier oil leaks less that indicates heavier oil isn't getting to all the places it needs to get or get there quickly enough.
Add me as a 5W30 user.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 09:41 pm:

Craig, 5W-30 is not thinner than monograde 30 at engine operating temperature. 5W-30 has additives to make it behave like a monograde 30 when it gets hot.

To take it a step further...a 0W-40 will be thicker than a monograde 30 at engine operating temperature.

Also note that thinner doesn't automatically mean better when it comes to engine oil. If you were to use a straight 5 weight oil in your engine you would destroy it...I'm sure everyone on this forum can agree on that. Too thin an oil provides no protection. That's why a straight 5 engine oil is not made.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 10:08 pm:

Are your sure?? When Tin Lizzie by Stern was printed in 1955 it stated the proper model T oil would be the modern [sae 10] Ford said a light grade machinery oil not tar.Much depends on where you live.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 10:21 pm:

Hey, think about clearances and oil thickness (viscosity). The oil has to be able to get into the bearing surfaces to lubricate them. I've used 30 non-detergent in my model T's since I bought them. But as the engines are boiled out and rebuilt I'll be changing to multi-grade detergent like 10W30. I doubt I'll be driving much during the 6 colder months of the year however you never know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 11:50 pm:

Hi Bud, Am I sure a straight 5 engine oil would destroy an engine? Well, I don't have scientific test results to backup what I'm saying (neither does anyone else here) but at a certain point an oil is too thin to do it's job. Why we don't use engine oil in a Warford or a rear end?

Royce says the Ford "light grade oil" was about SAE 20, Stern in 1955 says it was about SAE 10. Unless NOS 1920s Ford oil has been scientific tested by the API in a laboratory we'll never know for sure. Royce and Stern are making an educated guess rather than quoting facts.

If straight 5 oil is the correct oil for a T then we're all in big trouble because a 5W-30 is the same as a straight 30 at engine operating temperature...which means a 5W-30 is way way too thick using that logic.

I'll say it again, people who use a 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 are NOT using a thinner oil than a straight 30 weight when the engine is at operating temperature.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, April 28, 2014 - 03:19 am:

Constantine.......I fully understand oil weight designations.
Oil is useless if it doesn't get where it is supposed to get.......and the quicker the better.
Many new car manufacturers are specifying 0W20 oil for their engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, April 28, 2014 - 03:56 am:

We have been "debating oil for a very long time" so again I'll put my pennies worth in. Graig, a modern engine is not the same as a splash system, 3 to 4 times the revs, 1/2 the clearances and a pump to maintain pressure. Light oils as we have talked about in a model T seem to always fall back on the why, "the clutch pack" so lets consider the engine.
I've posted this several times.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, April 28, 2014 - 05:36 am:

I use 10W30 detergent oil and have never had any problems. As had been said many times before, most any modern oil is way better than what was available back in the T days. As far as what weight to use, it depends on what area of the world you are in. As in most discussions of what oil, transmission bands, tire pressure, gasoline, brass polish, radiators, water pumps, bearing clearences, thermostats, sparkplugs, carb stoves, etc., etc., etc.,I use what works for me. I really get a kick out of all of these discussions that say a Model T has to be set up to jet engine specs and won't work or last if they're not. How did they last this long without all of this modern technology? Plastigage imbedding into the babbitt if it is used dry? Seriously? I was always told that Plastigage was supposed to be used with oil to get a correct reading. I guess if Plastigage will imbed in babbit if used dry, it must be damn tuff stuff, a lot tuffer than babbit. But I'm not a Model T mechanic by no means, never claimed to be, or never will, but I have worked on bicycles, cars, hot rods, bulldozers, pumps, gearboxes, winches, trucks, trailers, house moving equipment, lawn mowers, irrigation equipment, helicopters, and various other things over the last fifty plus years. I just start my T in the spring after it sets over the winter by cranking it with my right hand if it won't start with the starter, usually it does. Sorry for the rant. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Monday, April 28, 2014 - 10:13 am:

Any diesel oil will provide better lubrication and contaminant/soot suspension than conventional oil.

I run Rotella T6 full synthetic ....


Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Stevens on Monday, April 28, 2014 - 12:42 pm:

I went by recommendations of the Towe Museum and run 20W50 in my '27. It's hot out here in West Texas. I run 20W50 in my Harley also, haven't seen any problems in either.


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