Ring & Pinion

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Ring & Pinion
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 06:31 pm:

Rebuilding the rear end on my Touring and ran into a problem. I put in new bronze thrust washers..bearing sleeves and good used Hyatt bearings...everthing fits fine. Im using a new pinion gear with a pretty fair ring gear. Also using the FunProjects drive shaft bearing. The problem is i get a "clunking" sound with each turn of the shaft. I added a .015shim under the ring gear and it didnt change. Do i need a new ring gear? This one has some wear but it doesnt look bad. Can a ring gear be bought without buying another pinion?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 06:42 pm:

I experienced the same when I rebuilt my diff with new parts. I believe the problem came down to the pinion gear not square to the ring gear. I made some paper shims to put underneath the pinion carrier housing when bolted to the diff. This helped some but I still have a little noise.

I'm running .012 backlash by the way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 07:43 pm:

Gary, look at where the collar fits in the driveshaft tube, you may need to grind a bit of the rough edge off, i had to do this on both cars, the lock screw can just clip the tube.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 08:00 pm:

Thanks Rick but it "clunks" without the shaft in the tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 08:13 pm:

Do you have a pinion tooth hitting a ring gear bolt, like this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 08:32 pm:

Steve..it makes the sound as each tooth of the pinion travels around each groove of the ring gear....like its not in mesh.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, April 24, 2014 - 09:01 pm:

Could it be ten sounds per revolution? There are ten bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 05:19 am:

The bolts are flush. 40 tooth ring gear..40 sounds per revolution.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 05:58 am:

How much backlash do you have?
Might be too tight? Ford had more backlash than most rebuilders nowadays, only drawback is a little more wear on the ring gear as we can see on most old axles we take apart.. With too little backlash I think you have a higher risk for noise and breakdowns.

Stan Howe shared a simple method to check the backlash in one thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/78571.html?1232164022
"Don't make it too hard, Mike. Run a piece of solder through the gears. If it is about the thickness of a playing card, it has a little too much clearance. It is is the thickness of a black hair it's about right. If it's the thickness of a blonde hair it's too tight."
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 11:30 am:

I have been setting the back lash to a MINIMUM of.015. I would not leave one at .012.
Many years ago Glen Chaffin told me they would be just fine at .020". I shoot for 20 now and find that it makes for a very quiet differential.

If you get them too tight they can throw teeth at high speed. I hate it when that happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 05:06 pm:

I for one, totally agree with Aaron. Some of the published recommendations for gear lash are simply
not right. My last rear end had 15-17 thou lash and is the quietest I've rebuilt. I've heard Ford specs were 25 thou lash. No wonder we always use ring gear shims when rebuilding REs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 10:47 pm:

I second what Aaron and Richard said. Used the original gears, which were in very good condition, and set it up with .016" lash. So far, it runs well, with little noise in any gear. Also used FP bearing replacement kit.

Gary - Did you sand/machine the new thrust washers to proper thickness?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 12:25 am:

Bruce use to recommend using stiff paper, run it thru the CP & pinion, if the paper is cut it I too tight, if no mark then too loose. Correct when the paper Is marked but not broken. Works for me and none of the fussy measuring of backlash.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 04:54 am:

Tony - It's really not that difficult to measure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 09:17 am:

Dave..yes..i sanded the bronze washers and everything fits fine...no end play on axles and it rotates smooth with everything together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 04:30 pm:

I put mine together like the Ford book says to!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 11:22 pm:

I think most likely the gears are not compatible. I would only use a new pinion with a new ring gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 12:31 am:

Royce i believe you are right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 12:34 pm:

Larry, I just reread chapter 15, Rear Axle Overhaul in the Ford Service book.. no mention of checking the pinion/ring gear backlash at all, not even any mention of checking how the driveshaft feels when turning it after it's assembled into the axle, just a caution to check through the drive shaft hole how the ring gear turns when the axle housings are together. If everything was to Ford specifications you had a large (by modern standards) but working backlash.

Gary, still no mention how much backlash you have? Did you try putting a piece of stiff paper or solder through the gears? Try without the shim behind the ring gear, the shim reduces the backlash, maybe too much?

Usually it's impossible to buy the ring gear only, they're supplied in sets. But you may be lucky to find a NOS ring gear on some swap meet..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Gregory on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 02:22 pm:

Roger...not tried the paper or solder trick yet ..but i did take the shim back out...I'll let you know what i find. Ive checked all the vendors for a single ring gear but no luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 09:52 pm:

I have to agree about using ring and pinion gears from different sources. I had a new Ford ring gear and purchased a new pinion from one of the suppliers. I got the same clunking noise when I rotated the ujoint, 11 per revolution. Everything was set up right, it had to be the gears. neither am I fan of using used gears from different rear ends, even though they may look good. Yes, I know about rolling one against the other looking for smooth, quiet engagement. That is not foolproof.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 10:21 pm:

You got the message! There is no mention of setting backlash in the Ford book! It is done automatically when you fit the u-joint to the front driveshaft bushing! I have done it the Ford way for years, and have never experienced a problem. No noise either.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration