1913 Canadian T coil box

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1913 Canadian T coil box
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 03:12 pm:

what would be the correct coil box for a 1913 Canadian T? I am trying to pick up all the correct parts to put mine together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 05:43 pm:

Dear Rob, it depends on how early or late your 1913 is. C1651 still had a Heinze coilbox, but C4010 still had a wooden coilbox, KW in this specific car. Heinze was extensively used before the KW. Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 07:20 pm:

As far as factory-issued equipment:

Early: Heinze, K-W, Kingston

Mid: Heinze, K-W

Late: Heinze, K-W, or metal Ford box with the usual "metal topped" coils made by either Ford or K-W. Some metal Heinze and Kingston boxes used with unique Heinze/Kingston coils, interchangeable in the box with regular Ford/K-W units. Their points did not interchange.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 09:45 pm:

Is there any written documentation showing that the Canadian cars used the wood coil box longer than the American cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 10:03 pm:

Canadian parts book lists the metal box for 1914 and the K.W. coil to fit Heinze wooden box up to 1914.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 10:20 pm:

The 10/1/13 American parts book lists only the wood boxes for 1913 and only the metal box for 1914:
coil boxes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Monday, May 05, 2014 - 11:29 pm:

I personally can only go on original surviving Canadian 1913's. The latest car found complete that I can say was complete when found is C4010 assembled in October 1913. As I wrote above it still has a wooden KW coil box.

If anybody else around Australia or the world has any more information or photos from known surviving Canadian 1913 data cars we would love to hear from you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 06:37 am:

David - Did C4010 with the wood coil box have the 1913 5-3/8 x 3-1/4 x 2-1/4" coils (or the later "standard size" (5 x 3-1/2 x 2-1/8) coils)?

As an aside, I've noticed that the early "standard size" coils (late 1913 - early 1915) are slightly narrower in depth than the later ones (1915-> ). Has anyone else noticed this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:14 am:

Dear John, I honestly can't tell you to that detail. Back when I saw the car I did not know there was a difference. Sorry. That is why this forum is so wonderful for the exchanging of information, research and shared experiences.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:26 am:

I have scanned the coil part of the August 1914 Canadian Parts List that I have, hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:28 am:

Here is part 2...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 07:23 pm:

David,

Thank you for posting the parts list pages. I wasn't able to match up all the picture numbers with the text numbers, but did notice a couple of interesting things:
1) It says that the later "standard" coils were only used in the Ford (metal) box (answering my question above) and
2) Heinze points were listed for 1914 (news to me).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 10:49 pm:

John
Randall Anderson briefly mentioned above the 1914 Heinze coils that fit the (then) standard KW/Ford metal coilbox. As near as Trent and I were able to piece together the story Ford bought these Heinze coils to either determine how they worked in contrast to the KW Williams design or because of factory production needs during 1914. This coils did not last long in Model T production.
Here is a photo of this unique coil on the right.
Heinze coil for KW/Ford Coilbox
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 10:51 pm:

Here is the photo.

Ron


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 11:00 pm:

Here is a link to the original research article.
See page 29 Photo #3.
The Model T Ignition Coil. Part 3: Chronology of the Ford/KW coil unit
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 11:04 pm:

Sorry, I should have stated Page 29 Photo #3 & 4.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 07:40 am:

What is interesting is the Canadian Parts List has no mention of the wooden KW box, only the Heinze and Kingston. From there straight to a metal "1914" style coil box.

So, the KW coil box in C4010 is incorrect then and was not there when found? Interesting...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 10:40 am:

The wood KW box and coils is certainly "period correct" and I would not hesitate to use it on a '13 of any ethnic origin ;<)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 11:53 pm:

Dear Ron & RV, a technical question. Is the early wooden KW coil box interchangeable with a Heinze? Is the spacing identical so a "bolt out - bolt in" job with out firewall modifications?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 10:18 am:

David
Not sure about the coilbox mounting hardware for all the various coilboxes, no doubt Randall Anderson will know. After much research of all Model T dashes, John Regan told me the timer, spark plug, magneto and battery terminals through wood dash hole spacing was the same for ALL Model T's throughout production.
Ron the Coilman


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