Ignition & Key

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Ignition & Key
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:53 am:

I have a 1919 Center Door that does not have a key to the ignition switch. Previous owner just hot wired a toggle switch. Is there anyway to find out what key number fits the switch? On the right side of the ignition switch is the number "15" stamped on it. But the Model T keys appear to be numbered from 51-74? MACs has a tumbler assembly keyed for #55 for years 1919-25; would it just be best to change the tumbler?
Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:56 am:

Chuck Lebeda:

Its real easy to change the tumblers and stamp your key CD.

My 19 CD:

CD


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 10:12 am:

The reason your tumbler has a 15 on it is because it most likely is an early Clum. Their numbers are different than Ford, but are correct in 1919. Jarvis Erickson might be able to help with that key.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 10:49 am:

Thanks for the info. I pulled the engine over the weekend an am trying to 'degrease' the frame and engine. Has 95 years of SD dirt/dust/oil on it. This car is mostly original; so my plan is to just clean up my "Mona Lisa" and keep it as is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 11:06 am:

Chuck, can we see some photos of her please?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 12:45 pm:

The body is is great shape. Engine and frame a 'little' greasy. Has a SD 1945 war-time sticker on it for a plate in the top center of the windshield? Did they use these during WWII? Here is my photo bringing her home.1919 C-Door


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 12:47 pm:

All the wiring is bad, needs a new wooden firewall. Radiator does NOT leak!! Tires good. Needs muffler.

Chuck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 12:59 pm:

Beautiful car Chuck. Nice and correct looking. You should get one of the wiring kits from the major suppliers. My wiring was original and extremely ratty yet somehow still worked. You would be amazed how incredibly easy it is to do a total rewire on a T with the excellent and correct wiring kits and easy instructions that come with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 01:59 pm:

Hello Chuck You will find that most states and provinces used a sticker some time during the war Here in Manitoba 41 and 42 where a pair of plates 43 was a tab add to the 42 plate 44 was a sticker added to the windshield you may find it is a gas ration sticker. In either case save it, its a nice piece of the cars history. Collecting plates is part of the old car collecting sickness I inherited for my dad


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:38 pm:

Chuck,

Since you say the car is mostly original, if it hasn't been done already, please consider replacing the plate glass with safety glass.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 09:20 pm:

I recently tried to replace the tumbler assembly in my 2626 Fordor. The replacement from the suppliers is not very good quality. It did not fit well, the gates did not slide smoothly and I finally tossed it aside. Going back to the original, I was able to get it apart, cleaned and reassembled. The part I thought was beyond hope functions much better than the replacement. With a little trial and error you can learn to key the switch to whatever key 51-75 you want.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 11:11 pm:

I am not sure on the windshield glass; most likely it is not safety glass? If not, I need to save my 45 decal. I could rekey the lock. Just bought a ‘keying’ kit for my house doors, so have been working on these locks. Assuming they may be similar process? I did get some extra keys with the car, but they don’t fit.

Thanks for all the info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 11:36 pm:

Here is our original 22 Centerdoor from when we brought it home in 05.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steve miller- mississauga,ontario on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 12:30 am:

Chuck.
Stand a quarter on edge on the glass.
look on an angle to see its reflection.
one image is plate glass. two images is laminated


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 01:23 am:

The mechanism for the key uses gates that look more like window frames. There is a thick end and a narrow end. The orientation up or down determines where the notch is on the key. There are no springs or pins, just gravity and lining up the gates so the tumbler can turn. Easy to see how it works once you have it apart. Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 01:46 am:

Here's a sure-fire way to tell laminated safety glass from solid plate glass. It'll cost you a quarter but you get 25˘ change back.

Hold the quarter loosely and sort of bounce it against the glass. If it makes a sharp, crisp sound you have solid plate glass — bad. If the sound is muffled and dull you have laminated safety glass — good.

Try it on your modern first to hear the difference... your front windshield will be laminated glass and the door windows solid glass (tempered, yes, but exactly the same sound as old-fashioned plate).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 10:27 am:

Another person you could check with on your key problem is Ben Martin. He is the T key expert. Be careful if you rewire the car. The 1919 wiring harness is different than the 21-25 models. Also, is your cutout mounted on the firewall or the generator?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 10:48 am:

Well, I am learning a lot more about this car from all your help. It 'coin-clicks' and has 'double-vision' like the windshield is safety glass? The license sticker on the windshield is 1945; so would the glass have been replaced with safety glass before 1945? It 'clicks' like the rear oval window and passenger windows are glass and the rest safety glass. Also the cutout is mounted on the passenger's side of the firewall.
Although the body has been repainted (I assume) all the wiring is very poor, so will have to rewire. The firewall is also very poor and has pieces of plywood screwed onto it to keep it together.
The carburetor looks like the carb on page 48, upper left hand carb (Holley NH), of "The Ford Carburetor" MTFCA book? But not sure? Can't find any identifying numbers. The engine ran, but I thought of putting a new carb kit in it. I may wait until the engine is back in it. Try to get it back together and running for a 150 year sesquintennial celebration at the end of July.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 11:42 am:

I'm guessing that a #15 Clum is the same as a #65 Ford key. Anyone?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 01:09 pm:

Chuck, I just bought a MACs tumbler assembly for a Briggs and Stratton lock.

The original assembly measures .502 in diameter. The MACs repro measures .524 and will not fit the cylinder.

That unit will work to replace the tumbler in a repro switch assembly.

That unit might work in other locks that are not so precision made.

There are at least three other original manufacturers that the unit might work with.

There are only four tumblers with the Briggs and Stratton cylinder. If the cylinder can be removed, like the Briggs and Stratton, the tumblers can be rearranged to fit any spare key you have available.

The main problem with the original cylinder is that it is pot metal and usually broken.

The MACs repro will work fine if you have a small lathe to trim it slightly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 01:26 pm:

Chuck,

Is the edge of the glass polished shiny smooth? Original glass usually is like this. Laminated glass has a rough ground edge, kind of frosty looking, and you can usually spot the edge of the laminated middle layer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 11:32 pm:

Some years ago I purchased from a vendor a set of masters from #51 - #74. There are four masters, the first one fits from 51 -56, second 57 - 62, third 63 - 68 and fourth 69 - 74. I don't remember what vendor.


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