Lesson learned block debris

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Lesson learned block debris
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:09 pm:

After chasing the block head bolt holes prior to re installing my head, I blew the holes out with compressed air. I was astounded by the debris blowing out of the water jacket holes ! Here are some shots. From now on I clean the block every time I have a head off !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:15 pm:

Looks like you run a water pump... Now tell the truth , Do you have a water pump..???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:17 pm:

Just another thought .... The inside of your radiator probably looks like that also. .....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:17 pm:

No but this car I bought 2 years ago has not been run in years. In sat in a barn in Florida for at least a decade before I started working on it. It did not have a water pump on it when I stated working on it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:18 pm:

The radiator is in the shop they want 600 to re-core it You are highly right that it too is dirty


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 04:51 pm:

David you did not say, but was the head gasket blow.??, a block could also look like that from a blown head gasket. In the photos that looks like grease. Is it kinda soft like hard grease or very hard like rust. Photos can be deceiving ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 07:04 pm:

David-

I'd get rid of those two-piece valves while you have it apart.

Which car is this for? A new black radiator from Bergs is about $800.

If that $600 is to re-core your 1916, it might be worth it.

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 07:42 pm:

Keith i will send you a private message but before I torque the head down I will replace. My understanding is with the one piece or any valve replacement, one must measure carefully the valve length and valve timing something I will need to learn to do. Any suggestions on one piece valve source?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 08:02 pm:

David,

One good source is the book "The Engine" published by the MTFCA, starting on page 29. It explains using both the piston travel method using a Wilson's gauge and the piston position methods. If you don't have this book, I bet someone near you has one you could use. I don't know if they're still available to purchase from the MTFCA.

It's not as hard as it seems. I had never done it before and did mine using the piston travel method and it runs great.

Good Luck!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 08:17 pm:

David-
Yes. Proper valve stem length is a must.
I would opt for a set of adjustable lifters.

Choose your favorite vendor.


: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 08:45 pm:

Perfect time to invest a small amount in new stainless valves and get new springs and keepers too. The job is do-able if you can read and know how to follow instructions, have a basic understanding of how the engine operates, and you don't try to rush it, you won't be sorry. Get the book, I bet there is some T person around who has done it before and can lend some help. The only tricky bit is if the block needs to be reamed for the next size up valve stems as well as getting the seats correct. One step at a time and it can be done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 10:57 pm:

You'd be surprised at how much of that stuff remains stable and in place as long as there's coolant in the system. Especially with anti-frz. It starts flaking off when exposed to air. I'm saying you probably wouldn't see that amount of stuff if you'd just drained the system out. Your radiator might not be bad at all if that's the case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 08:58 am:

Keith took the words right out of my keyboard..$600 to recore--I'd be buying a new one if it weren't brass, and still probably a new one if it were. I just like keeping 'em "fresh"!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 11:27 am:

What kind of water are you using?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 12:02 pm:

There has to be a way of doing a good job cleaning the inside of a block. Any insulating material like dirt or rust is going to depreciate marginal engine cooling. Battery and washing soda might help but it works by line of sight.
So many of strong dip tank chemicals are not legal anymore. It would be great to know the answer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 09:43 pm:

When I removed and disassembled my engine, I was also shocked how much rust and crud came out of it. I had to rotate the block and shake and lightly dig to get out all the flakes as well as using compressed air. Now I drain my rad into a large bucket every 6 months. I find that any sediment settles quickly and totally meaning I can pour the now perfectly clear coolant back in, stopping just before the sediment pours out. This keeps my engine and rad perfectly clean and costs me nothing. The petcock on the T rad makes this job real easy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 12:02 pm:

Inspecting your pictures David the top picture with the head bolt thread next to the block water port sure looks like a crack from the threads down into the water port.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 07:44 pm:

I use one full can of Crystal Draino to boil out the block and radiator. It will do a good job of removing any grease or carbon. Anything petroleum or carbon based. Pre mix it in a plastic bucket with enough hot water to fill the block or radiator. Their ad says "will not hurt your pipes" I have used it lots of times with good effect. It will not remove rust. I use CLR (calcium, lime, rust) remover from Wal Mart (or under your wifes kitchen cabinets" To remove the rust after the Draino process. I try to use a 50/50 solution in the block or radiator overnight. of the CLR, but a weaker solution will work but just takes longer. Use hoses, block off plates or whatever works to get the block or radiator full. I also use a 2 foot long piece of speedometer cable with one end frayed. Stick the good end into a electric drill and stick the frayed end into the block, head, water ports ect and turn it on, let it thrash around while moving it into all the corners you can. You will be shocked at what will fall out of a already cleaned block or head. I also have a 2 foot piece of car antenna with about 2 to 3 inches bent at aprox a 45 degree angle. I also put it in the drill and let the bent end thrash around in the head or wherever it will fit. The antenna works best in the heads. The 2 thrashing tools work best in a dry block or head and not a wet one. Run the drill fairly slow or as fast as seems comfortable to you. I also try to do the CLR part of the cleaning after the thrashing tools ..... I believe both of the chemicals are safe to dispose of in the household drains. Both are approved for home consumer use. One is a caustic and one is acidic, which tend to neutralize each other. Not for sure about a septic tank. Just use safe work practice (gloves, goggles, ect) with the chemicals and you should have a nice clean engine and radiator..... Just remember that after a real good cleaning of the radiator you may find a leak if all that was holding the radiator together was the rust and scale.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 12:37 pm:

Thanks Donnie, Thought of doing just about what you have explained including the speedometer cable.
This 25 block just about apart uses the same block as a 26 my intent is to clean the water jackets before its running so water inlets will be blocked off with the head on and heated with a propane roofing torch. Clean from the inside out not from the outside in. A vent hole will be left in the top with a thermometer to just keep it boiling.
On second thought the brass 16 radiator will be hooked up to go after both at the same time.


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