All things early.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: All things early.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 10:34 am:

I miss Rob!! I miss the threads he started where no matter where the replies came from many learned much!! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 11:03 am:

Bud, You are so right. There are so many OT threads here and we enjoy them all. I know there are new folks all the time but how many times do we read the same questions over and over? Rob has done a great job bringing to life the real facts of many of the old cars and has done a great job on his K. Its not right for some to try to prove him wrong with bad info. Rob never started a fight but he did defend his findings. I would like to see a lot more Rob,s here and a lot less of the pecker heads. We need good information not old wives tales. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 12:02 pm:

What happened to Rob?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 12:17 pm:

I wondered too, so I looked it up. It's sad thing when a misunderstanding degenerates into a urination festival.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/439961.html?1398668857#POST618193


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 02:32 pm:

Rob is taking a break from the forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 02:58 pm:

I hope he does come back. Not only are his Model K and early Ford postings interesting, they have taught a lot of us about the important foundations of the Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 03:02 pm:

I do hope for his return here.
He put a lot of time and effort into his research and his posts. We all benefited by it. Others could try to do similar, to better the forum, but it would be a big effort for anyone. And for me, I found his research and insights very interesting. But I lean toward horseless carriage era anyway.
And no. Nobody benefits from the p!$$!ng matches. If you don't like a certain poster's point of view? Don't read them. I will admit, there are a couple I stay out of. But mostly, I do like the OTs.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 07:41 pm:

People get mad or offended and leave for a while, but most return. It's too addictive. I can only think of one who left (On his own accord, that is) that hasn't been back. That is Seth from, seems like, Shreveport?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 08:05 pm:

I miss Rob as well!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 08:30 pm:

There's been more. Some just quit without comment. After a while you realize they are not posting anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 08:35 pm:

I'm pretty sure that Rob will be back in due time. He just needed a break for a while. He has other things on his plate just now, and the kind of research he was doing takes a great investment of time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 08:41 pm:

I can't imagine Rob will stay away long.

Check this thread from 2005 - see how many of the folks are still here:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/41475.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 08:51 pm:

If I want to learn about Pre T's I can go over to the Early Ford Registry
-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 09:29 pm:

I would sign a petition to get Rob back. It certainly doesn't bother me to see threads about the pre-Model Ts. That is the history behind the creation of the car we all love. Rob, I really like your posts and I hope we will see you again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 09:35 pm:

its like reading the news paper, i only read what interest me, not every article. personally i enjoy learning about the older models. i will probably never have one, but nothing wrong with learning


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 10:43 pm:

Hal

I have to agree with you. I miss Seth, too. He was always very polite and helpful especially in a PM.

I think Rob will eventually come back. I know he is watching, but it may be quite some time before he posts again. He has got a lot of work to do on his K. Right now the engine is out of commission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 07:40 am:

Go ahead, Don. I'm sure they'd be glad to have you. I'm with Clayton. I didn't read all of Rob's Pre-T threads, but some I did. It certainly didn't bother me that he posted them. He was usually very good at identifying them as OT and Pre-T, which made it very easy to skip over them if you weren't interested.

It sometimes seemed Rob went out of his way to try to prove the K was THE greatest thing since cheese grits, which I don't necessarily agree with (I REALLY like cheese grits), but I have to say he has really shed some light on the K and dispelled a lot of the bad reputation it has gotten. If one didn't care to read about that kind of stuff, they didn't have to. Sometimes I did, and sometimes I didn't. I don't understand why others can't make that same decision.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Baker on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 08:17 am:

Rob is a farmer, he has a crop to plant, that comes first, I think he is very busy and putting in many hours a day, ,when the farming slows down I think he will be back, great guy!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 09:45 am:

Its always interesting to learn about Henry Fords history and background wherever it comes from.
As for me the reason I read this forum is to learn about The Model T and to help in getting the ones I have to run and function the best they can.
This forum is meant to promote and further the popularity of the Model T which should always be the main objective of this forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 10:49 am:

I'll agree with many of you that feel Rob will be back after he cools off and some time passes. I felt his posts dealing with Model Ts and the OT ones dealing N-R-S Fords were a good addition to this forum. It seemed that most of the conflicts came from posts dealing with the Model K. I felt that he did a great amount of research that brought new light to the history of the Model K and dispelled a lot of misinformation on the car. However, many of Rob's posts were skewed by his agenda (conscious or otherwise) to prove it was the best car of the period and that lead to some of his posts being challenged. I feel most of those challenges were justified. Just like what is posted on the Internet, not everything written in the newspapers of that time can be considered to be absolute fact. Many of the things he was confronted about came from those periodicals and I feel it was right to question articles that could not be collaborated from other sources. What is fact and what is conjecture needs to be sorted out whenever a subject is properly researched. Sometimes certain things need to be challenged, it's the best way to get the correct information. Most of the other issues came from Rob trying to compare other cars of the period with the K. That kind of comparison is just too abstract to draw any real agreement and very few people are going to come to the same conclusion. Now when it comes to the information he researched and posted from the Ford archives and dealer documents, my hat's off to him, that was great work. When he puts all that information together, there will be a truer history of the Model K and that will be a great asset for us now and future generations.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 11:17 am:

From an ethanol worshiper: "Henry Ford built his first car, the Model T, to run on ethanol."

You cannot understand the T's history without knowing the cars that came before it, both Fords and others. Thank you, Rob.

Where are all the corn ethanol worshipers now?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 03:32 pm:

I love my corn ethanol. Just not in my cars


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 11:04 pm:

I've never liked the way Rob was treated on this forum. Everyone has the right to their opinion and all too often many of us exercise that right a little too much. But I noticed Rob had to be pushed a long way before he'd ever come close to being mean, sarcastic or out of line. He always did his research and stayed away from conjecture. Though I've only met him once I was proud to talk to him. He's an asset to our hobby and I wish those who took issue with him would have had the balls to deal with the controversy somewhere other then on this forum. I hope he comes back soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, May 09, 2014 - 11:35 pm:

I do not recall Rob ever saying that the model K was better than everything else, even of its time. I do not believe that he even thinks that it was. What he (seemed to me) mostly was trying to prove was that the model K was not the turkey that most historians claimed Henry Ford said it was. Remember also (true to the quote attributed to him, "all history is bunk"), Henry Ford was himself somewhat of a "revisionist". He was well known to change his story years later. I (personally, "I") believe many of the best known historians were too quick to quote what Henry said many years later, and not look at the facts, and sometimes not even their own memories. Rob knows, as I believe, the model K was NOT the car Henry most wanted to build. He, Ransom E Olds, Maxwell, and several others wanted to build the car that every man could afford, and would put the world on wheels. Henry was by far the greatest success at that. I am certain that the model K was not his ultimate goal. The Model T was. The model K was a profitable learning experience that helped make the model T possible. It may have arguably been the best automobile buy for the money in those two and a half years that it was manufactured and sold. But better cars were built and could then be had, for considerably more money.
Rob also was trying to show that Henry probably liked the car, at least some. A far more difficult thing to prove. No one can fully know what is in the heart of another. Rob has shown that "bankers" and "investors" did not likely force Henry to build and sell model K Fords. The timing of certain facts and Henry's greater power and position in the company just do not support the old "story line" given by most Ford historians and their parrots. Just like any of us that have ever had a job we didn't really want, but that we knew would help us to get to the job we did want, I suspect Henry liked the K well enough and probably was proud of it. At least until he changed his mind as he got older.

I do hope all is well with Rob and his family, as I do for all the regulars of this forum. Some day, I hope to meet and get to know Rob personally. As I do all the regulars on this forum.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 01:00 am:

Spot on, Wayne.

It was good to meet you at Bakersfield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 08:21 am:

Henry Ford's closest associates, Charles Sorensen and Joseph Galamb both said in their autobiographies that Henry Ford did not wanr to build the Model K. In many and varied interviews both James Couzins and Henry Ford are quoted as saying that high priced, low volume cars did not fit Henry's or James vision of the company's best interests. Galamb went further and said that "he built it because the share holder wanted it" which most historians think is a reference to Alexander Malcomson influencing Henry.

So please, do not say that "historians claimed Henry Ford said the Model K was a turkey" because in fact historians, the really honest ones, are just quoting the people who were there.

These are facts that make Rob angry because he can't refute them. Without a doubt Henry did everything he could to promote the Model K and to make it successful. That doesn't change any of the statements above into false statements.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 10:37 am:

Really, Royce -- Can't you just let it go?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 11:40 am:

You got it, Wayne.

It is all about PASSION.

I think we all know that Henry Ford was passionate about building a small light-weight car, "for the multitudes."

Rob has showed us that the Model K was a "successful" venture. It was successful because the six-cylinder engine and racers that were built put the company in the record books, put the company in the public media, and put money into the company bank account that enabled the company to continue research and design for the small car.

It was very successful for what Henry Ford needed and wanted at the time. If rich successful people wanted a big expensive car, Henry would build just enough to satisfy them and keep the racing (and publicity frenzy) going.

We have all done things with our jobs and careers that have been financially successful for us, but it didn't mean that we wanted to do it.

Henry Ford was passionate about small light-weight cars that any man could afford. The Model K did not fit the bill, so it was not Henry Ford's passion.

Because it was not his passion, he did not want to build the Model K.


: ^ )
Keith

ps-
I, too, still like to read about, "all things early"...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 02:43 pm:

I've got a passion for history, not just of the Model T, and not just Fords, not just old cars, but any and all history. Ignoring facts doesn't make them go away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Haynes on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 05:39 pm:

Students of Ford history on this board have lost a valued contributor in Rob, heckled away by the over-grown schoolyard bully and laughably self-styled historian.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 06:20 pm:

Your descriptive language gave me a laugh, Dan. I bet it did Royce as well.
Good to see and talk with you in Pasadena. You inspired Diane to try her hand at upholstery. Too bad the inspiration faded after a few days!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 06:23 pm:

Dan,

Please contribute to any and all of my threads. I don't see your personal attacks as relevant to the discussion, but hey, if that's all you have, I guess it will have to suffice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 06:32 pm:

I didn't carefully read the entire thread that Steve Jelf posted the link to above, but from a cursory look through it, it didn't appear that Royce was the one who pissed Rob off this time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Haynes on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 06:57 pm:

"All your threads", Royce? So are we to infer you now view all threads as "yours"?

No matter, I just glanced at the clock and see it's been 15 minutes and you are overdue to post another fascinating pinched-tube tire changing video and photo album. I don't want to keep you from it, we can catch up later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 09:58 pm:

The name I see at the top of this thread is Kenneth DeLong. Is Royce using 2 names since he claims this is his thread?

Dan is correct. Are we to infer that everytime Royce posts a snide comment that the thread becomes his?

I certainly do not see anything in Royce's posting that would be considered a contribution to this thread.

All I see is a swollen head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike dixon on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 11:01 pm:

I met royce once. He seems like a nice guy. while we were talking, he broke wind. Someone said "thats the most intelligent thing he ever heard royce say" dont know what he meant by that


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 11:09 pm:

Deja Vu all over again. Next thing will be a thread titled "I miss Royce". You guys are brutal...


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