26 Model T Ignition system

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 26 Model T Ignition system
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Neptune on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 09:17 pm:

My Dad was/is trying to replace the ignition system on his 26 T

This is a sensitive topic and I am totally having fun working with him

I am now trying to help him get this and a few other of his old cars back in order

My biggest problem is he in the last 18 months has been diagnosed with dementia and can not remember where he left off on the T

Can anyone point me into why he would have been upgrading to a starter solinoid

I believe I installed the "new solinoid switch correctly but now I am trying to sort out the key switch and tumble assembly

Is this required to replace with the universal ignition switch he purchased (if so where would it mount doe is forgo the original key switch?) the new key switch is a 4 stud where as the original has 5

Needless to say I am now 40 and not great at cars and wished I would have spent a few years earlier working with my Dad so as to pass on this fun info

He is young as far as I'm concerned but unfortunately his mind is struggling

Please help if you can

Thanks

Ryan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 09:45 pm:

Welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear of your dad's condition. Love them while you can.

I would first determine the condition of the original starter switch. (The one on the floor.) Some have used that switch to drive a starter solenoid but it really isn't necessary if the floor switch works. The Model T wiring isn't designed for a modern ignition switch. The wires to the original switch won't match up to the configuration needed for the modern type switch.

What type of ignition is on the car now? Original or distributor? Is the battery good? Does it start now?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Neptune on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 10:12 pm:

I found it in pieces

It's the original type

But he was convinced he needs to convert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 10:16 pm:

Here is an earlier post on how to wire up a solenoid on the T. Keep your dad happy and do it for him. No harm or foul to the Model T.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/435656.html?1396624312


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 10:27 pm:

The original ignition switch can be reconditioned. Contact Ben Martin, his phone number is 770-938-3376. He doesn't do e-mail. As for wiring, I grabbed this diagram off the forum for wiring the switch once reconditioned.





Also Ron Patterson's schematic is very helpful. I'll have to post again as I can't seem to post the second image.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 10:32 pm:

Here is Ron's schematic.



The problem I had earlier is the upload dialog was hiding behind the active page. Excessive poster head space I guess.

BTW, Circuit breakers aren't recommended by some for use in a T. Slow to trip and may cause problems. Use a 15 amp fuse to the starter solenoid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Dvis on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 11:32 pm:

Ryan....Most foot starter switches that we find today are way past their usefulness. A starter solenoid is what I've used and they work great. If the solenoid you're using has 3 terminals, think of it this way...It has a little switch that activates a big switch. But something has to tell that little switch what to do. You can use the foot switch, to activate the solenoid small switch if it still can make and break a circuit without becoming a direct path between battery and frame and becoming a fire hazard. To do this run a "hot" line from the battery side of the foot switch to the small terminal on the solenoid. Disconnect the heavy gauge line from the output side of the foot switch and connect it to one side of the solenoid. That one of the larger terminals. That would make a line running from one side of the solenoid to the starter terminal. Now you need to run a new heavy gauge line from the positive side of the battery to the remaining unused terminal on the solenoid. To make the little switch inside the solenoid work, it needs a pathway to the frame which completes the circuit back to the battery. On every 3 terminal solenoid I've seen the metal case of the solenoid grounds it as you bolt it to the frame so be sure you have a good contact. My self, I use a NO (normally open) push button switch rather than the foot switch but it a judgement call on my part. You may wish to consider a 20 amp in line fuse on the hot line between the battery and the small solenoid terminal. Hope this helps. Take care of your dad. He's the only one you have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Neptune on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 11:34 pm:

I don't think there is any problem with the original starter

I just think my Dad thought it was a good idea

I was simply trying to finish what he started but not sure either way

Right now I have wired the "new solenoid" finished drilling and mounted it next to the original floor switch

I believe I have wired it correctly but not sure why it is needed or if it was

Right now I have this "new" four post key switch he wanted installed but I think it is not supposed to be

He is also missing the key tumbler it looks for the original switch for dim, mag, lights ect...

Do you know how that is supposed to look?

I can see in many catalogs what it looks like from the front

But his is empty without the tumbler my mom thinks she saw something laying around but we can't find it

Should I order a new tumbler and key set or the entire new unit

I worry about just a tumble because I'm unsure of mounting the new tumble to the old assembly as it looks like it requires rivets and some finesse when installing as the main switch either requires the rivet to be a stop or the rivets need to be able to be small enough pull back as to not interfere with the slide switch

However that's just a guess and not sure which one is right


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Neptune on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 11:37 pm:

Trying but not sure how to load a picture

Thank you all for helping me with this project


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Dvis on Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 11:54 pm:

Ryan, What I did, and I know it's not T but it eliminates the fickleness of the original T dash switches, which I left for the sake of authenticity, was to installed a NO push button switch on the front seat riser, left side, down low, out of site, and where it eliminates the possibility of accidentally engaging the starter while the engine is running.

I had a dash switch set to ground out and it burned out all the wiring and flamed. That resulted in my installing a fuse for protection and gets the solenoid circuit all to itself. Your dad probably knew tat the original foot starter switches can be problematic and that why he wanted to use a solenoid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 09:32 am:

Ryan,

If you ever hope to run the T on magneto, you need the T switch to be able to select either battery or magneto to power the coils. Used ones are sometimes on e-bay. If too many parts are missing from yours, grab a decent one from there and have Ben recondition it. BTW, I also use my foot switch to activate a solenoid. It is over 80 years old so I'm trying to make it last by not putting high amp loads through it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 10:30 am:

Here is a photo from Ryan, resized from almost 2 meg to under 68K:

photo

Ryan, to fit on the forum, photos need to be resized so that they are 194 kilobytes or less. I use Corel Paintshop Pro to resize my pictures, but there are other, free applications as well, so a search on the forum for "resize pictures" and I'm sure some threads naming other applications will come up. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 11:43 am:

Here is another photo from Ryan:

photo


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