Only in Canada eh?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Only in Canada eh?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 07:49 pm:

So I dragged home this "field car". A '26-7 coupe with maybe a couple of interesting little details!!
Check out the front license bracket. As far as I know this is the CORRECT bracket for Canadian '26-7 cars. I have almost never seen this bracket. Maybe have to make a few.

and from the side

Now how about this horn button

Now here are the bad parts of this car. It got turned into a truck (probably later in life.

The good news is the "cut out" parts are still with it.

And yet this car still has the rear curtain roller!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 08:01 pm:

Strange. I wonder why they would mount a license bracket facing the ground and curtain hanging off the roof. Those silly people. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 08:03 pm:

Ken
My limited ability with posting picture taken with my iphone!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 08:11 pm:

Here they are flipped.

pic1

pic2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, May 12, 2014 - 09:11 pm:

Mark
Thx
I wonder what the Australian T's used?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Stewart -Calif. on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 12:31 am:

That cool car is T-Lishe's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 12:38 am:

Not often you see a car with the cut off parts included. Nice find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 02:32 am:

Canada made both LHD & RHD cars, so like many other things on a 'T' they could not be sided, like the horn button. It is correct to be mounted in the centre of the steering wheel.

I have seen other number plates brackets mounted like this one, but I did not think it was factory. Does anybody have a 1926/27 Canadian Parts List?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 03:47 am:

David, I am fairly curtain that Peter Kable has some Canadian parts list's. I have one of the same licence plate brackets on our Fordor,but it is a reproduction item from Snyders I bought it 25 years go. Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 07:06 am:

Neat find! And yes a 1926-27 Canadian price list of parts to give us the part number would be nice.

Note on page 380 of Bruce's book "Model T Ford" he shows a photo of a prototype 1926 coupe. I've believed for several years that it most likely was "Made in Canada" or assembled in Canada based on the Canadain style 21 inch demountable wheels that have the Kelsey loose lug rims and more importantly the rims have the two holes on each side for the split for the Canadian split rim tool to fit into. That is further confirmed by two additional photos of the same car in the same location (valve stems have not moved) from the Ford of Canada archives that are included in the MTFCI “Ford Model T Digital Library” [available form the MTFCI at: http://www.sportproducts.org/MT%20International/MTI%20DVD-CD.html or the vendors ] in the 1926 section. They show the Canadian horn button mounted on the steering wheel. It looks likely to me that it probably has the same of a similar license plate bracket -- based on the location of the license plate. See below a cropped version from page 380 of Bruce’s book:



And that clue now gives us (ok me, one of the slower learners) another clue for helping to determine between a USA and Canadian 1926 and perhaps also 1927 Model Ts -- the front license plate bracket. I haven’t had time to check that theory (guess) out much. But on page 384 of Bruce’s book he shows a 1926 prototype roadster – with that same license plate location [truth in advertising – actually the exact same numbered tag that the coupe had]. And from that clue I looked closer and it also has the loose lug Kelsey with the two holes at the split in the split rim for the Canadian split rim tool. At today was the first time I remember noticing those two holes in the photo. Photo cropped to show detail and also to stay within the fair use rules – please see below:



And zooming in on the original you can see the two wires hanging down from the horn button on the steering wheel. So yes, it was most likely assembled in Canada or at least with Canadian parts.

Still lots of puzzle pieces to try and fit together. But I suspect the now hard to access Ford of Canada archive material has a photo of a prototype 1926 roadster that also has that license plate bracket.

Any other Canadian or other Ts with that sort of license bracket?

Did they have to redesign it when bumpers were installed on the 1926-27 T?

Again Les, thank you so much for sharing your “new” find! And if you have a chance please let us know what if any assembly plant letter and number are on the engine side of the firewall close to where the radiator rod attaches to the firewall [please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/196599.html?1299852394
] . If there is an assembly plant number, please let us know when you have time the number on the frame and the number on the engine and the assembly plant number. For the engine numbers C704xxx etc. works fine for me. Again thank you for sharing your find!

[I would assume the front spring was a replacement – but if you could confirm that, it would be another data point if Canadian cars went to straight cut leaf ends.]

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 07:55 am:

My Ford Motor Co. of Australia 1933 Parts book for Model T and TT parts, lists part number 3664A as the "front license assembly' for years 1924-27.
part number 3662 is described as 'front license bracket-right 1920-21. This does at least confirm that there were an earlier style and a later style of a front RHD license bracket for the Australian fords. Neither bracket is pictured in the catalogue,just the description. I have two versions of the same original parts catalogue. One is I assume for the owner and only includes the part numbers, the other is slightly wider and includes all the pricing of the parts in a column on the right hand side. I assume this was the dealer version.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 08:02 am:

The part number for the Front Licence plate is 3664 for 1921 - 27 LHD

3664A for a left hand side mounted bracket its listed as for NS which in Australian is near side (side near the gutter)

3664B 1926-27 for if used for a nine leaf spring

The bracket is shown as being flat not bent up into a U shape as in Les's photo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 08:04 am:

Looks like Warwick and I were answering at the same time, My catalogue shows the bracket


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 09:10 am:

A couple of extra points. Les, the horn button on the steering wheel nut is common on our Canadian sourced cars. However yours is not typical in construction. The button assembly is the same as that used on US cars in 1915-6, which were mounted on top of the steering column. The bracket holding it is the same but the lugs are straight down the side rather than bent at right angles to sit flat on the column. The white button does not belong.
Hap, as far as I know, our 21" Canadian rims with their distinctive pair of holes for the rim tool, all had fixed lugs. I have never seen Kelsey type loose lugs on a 21" rim
Likewise I have never seen a license plate bracket bent up in a U shape like that shown. Usually the bracket comes straight forward from the spring retaining mount. I have seen brackets which bolt to one of the ends and also some with two holes which are attatched to both.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 09:37 pm:

Hap, for your records.

The 3664 bracket appears to have a lean to the right on the vertical bar, could be the 3664A RHD bracket leans to the left.
bracket

Here is the front Licence bracket lists
list

You will note that there is a front licence plate clip plus parts.

This is for securing the plate onto the headlight bar on late 1926-27 cars.

This photo comes from a Ford Australia Sales manual I did not see mention of it in Bruce's book. One picture actually shows the plate under the radiator.

coupe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 10:25 pm:

First thank you all for the additional information.

Peter – thank you for the illustrations from the price list. Long term I’m hoping we can have part numbers, Price List illustrations and photos of parts for folks to see. That will take a while – but we are slowly working towards that.

Allan -- perhaps Ford of Canada did not send the lose lug 21 inch rims to Australia? They are clearly on the prototype Coupe (rear photo shows spare -- that clearly shows loose lug as well as two holes for Canadian rim clamp). I'm glad I have a job, but often times I wish I had a little more time to research and compare items. In this case the Jan 1, 1925 Canadian Price List has listed part number 2800K that states …..less rim, clamps, …… which implies to me they were loose clamps/lugs. And the next page part number 2846K “Demountable rim clamp. Balloon tyre type” supports that they probably did offer those in Canada. I believe the “K” suffix would be for Kelsey but I do not have documentation to support that.





If anyone has additional information on those loose lug 21 inch balloon tire wheels fitted to Canadian cars please let us know. Below are some photos of Chad’s rims that were posted years ago (yes Canadian cut off).










See also: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/39491.html

Again -- thank you to everyone for their help.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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