I had originally posted on March 10 'Need help to determine value' and received a lot of great feedback. The figures that came back were widely different than what the estate thought based on a local person's opinion who might not have expertise with T's.
Is there anyone in Central PA around the Clearfield\DuBois area that could take a look at this car and give us another viewpoint?
Your estimates of value will continue to be all over the place due to lack of knowledge, emotional reasoning, or wishful thinking. Put it on Ebay. It will reach more potential buyers and the bidders will set the current value.
"....The figures that came back were widely different than what the estate thought based on a local person's opinion who might not have expertise with T's
Isn't that the truth!
Bystanders think the old cars are worth a mint...then try to sell one for that "mint" - LOL
I think the $2,500 to $3,500 crowd is about right. If you start getting much over $3,500, you're just being nice.
I'm not sure why but literally EVERYone who sees my speedster thinks it MUST be worth a fortune. When I try to explain that it's a niche car and that the only one's bringing any decent money are museum quality they look at me like I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I suspect that your local expert is saying something WAY high - just out of curiosity can you tell us what they are asking for it right now?
Here is the original thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/428757.html?1394450391
You can keep on posting in that thread too, if you like.
Check Model T's on eBay for current value - most cars up for auction doesn't sell, since the seller has a higher start/reserve price than most buyers wants to pay. Here are a few that actually sold recently:
location = the number of local Model T:ers is also important for the value.
The deal here is that neither I nor the direct family members have expertise with T's. This is not a case of an estate fight at all, we are just trying to determine what the fair market value is.
Based on local feedback that the family received, the last number I heard was in to 10-12k range.
Patrick look on home page here or at Model T Club International for a T club in your area. If you contact them someone may be willing come look in person and give you some feedback.
I believe that Seth from NC is pretty close, but I'd be surprised if a Model T'er would give more than $2,500 for it. It's a put-together car with parts from many years, and it has a homemade body.
A nicely restored Model T would bring $10-12K, but it would take that much and more to put this car in that condition. Someone might figure it would be worth $2K worth of fun without restoring it.
$10-12K is 4X what it's worth. Like Tim said, get someone knowledgeable in the area to have a look. If that doesn't work pay an automobile appraiser to do an appraisal.
That car is worth ten to twelve grand in Fantasyland. In the real world, I agree that $3500 is a generous figure.
The people who are saying $10 - 12K also do not have expertise in Model T's. I'm not trying to pick on them, that's just honestly what the situation is.
You usually get one of three scenarios when getting an "appraisal".
1. Paid appraiser: Wants to deliver "good news" so you feel you're getting your money's worth out of him. Who wants to pay good money for bad news?
2. Local "car guy": No knowledge of early cars, mostly into "street rods", also wants to deliver "good news" to appear to be in the "know".
3. Friend or acquaintance: This is usually the fellow who tells you, after the car is sold, "Wow man you gave it away, it was worth 10 times that!", but who has zero knowledge of such things and wouldn't have paid you 1/10 of what you sold it for.
Again, I'm not trying to pick on any of these people, just trying to explain a bit of human nature. I'm not a psychologist, but I've heard all of the above repeated over & over enough times to know the routine.
You really have gotten very honest feedback here.
As I understand it you're interested in buying this car from relatives, and want to give them what it's really worth. Perhaps they could put it on eBay and you could buy it there. The local market will tell you what it's worth in central Pennsylvania. People all over the USA and the world will see it, but nobody is going to travel hundreds of miles to fetch a car like that.
Thank you all, I appreciate the input. I am sure we'll work something out over the next few months.
Once it's all said and done, it will be nice to have something that my Great Uncle put together an enjoyed for many years.
I'm going to tell you something you might already know and that is I've found there's only 2 good ways to buy a T. Personal experience talkin' here. One is an estate sale where the bank doesn't want the car. I got a fully restored '27 Tudor that way for 4 grand and turned it around for 9. My 2 1923 Touring's were bought from much older guys who had had enough. Both were stored for years, dirty, ran when parked (really), had titles and were complete. One is my profile photo. My point is you can sell a car that's nice to a T guy for a good profit but you can't get one for a good price from a T guy or their relatives. By good I mean your able to turn it around for a profit. I've had many cars over the years but the T's gave me the most return because I know what I've done to them (pictures, bills the works) and so do the people that bought them. I cleared 5 figures on both the '23's so I know it's possible to get that price BUT I wouldn't pay that for one. There's nothing on the bone as Rick Harrison says. Cars are a bank account on wheels to me. When life calls and I need some cash they go.
This is one of the often annoying aspects of this hobby. There ought to be a law! No appraiser should be allowed to give a value on an antique automobile unless he personally will pay about 60 percent of that figure. I have more than a few times been called names (I may be a cheapskate, but I am not a thief or crook) because I made a good offer on something that was for sale, "make offer", and my offer was about one-tenth what some appraiser said.
Actually, one of my long-time best friends is an appraiser for collector cars. He puts a great deal of time into researching real current values and being as correct as he can be. He also often will give a price at what he will be willing to pay. He puts his money where his mouth is, and has bought more than a few cars that way. I have personally met many other appraisers, None I liked, none I would trust, more than a few, I have argued with. And so help me, I never want to hear the phrase "Where could you find another one just like it for $25000?" Just because you cannot find another one exactly like it (for any amount of money), does not mean it is worth that. It is only worth that if you can find someone willing to hand over the cash. I have often argued that it isn't really worth more than what you can find two people willing to pay. Only one can be a simple case of a fool and his money, hard to find two fools with enough money, so it must be worth that.
Okay, I have ranted enough.
One bit of advice I would offer to Patrick Hartzell. Unless your family is a lot better than a lot of mine, I would reconsider buying it unless everyone is satisfied with the agreed upon price. If there are people convinced that it is worth several times what it is? Hard feelings can last a long time. I have sadly passed up a few family pieces because other family members thought it was worth a lot more. And I really have gotten my fair share of family history, although, frankly, most of what I have gotten, nobody else wanted.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Couldn't agree more with the comments on this thread. Family members get tough with value perceived on papa's antique cars.
Friend and I were asked to give value of this touring after viewing. The son knew hot rods, but no T's, his sisters weren't happy with our estimate of 7500-8000. They gathered in a huddle and assured us that dad's T was going for sale at 12,000 firm.
Non running '26, no title, some body issues, older paint and shiny vinyl uph in the 70's.
They spent over $200 on local adv, and then put on eBay, with reserve, finally with reserve gone it did sell for $7800 less eBay fees of prob about $150.
Many years ago when I was trying to sell a '32 Ford for $3500 a guy looked at it and told me it was worth twice that amount. I asked him why he didn't buy it and double his money. End of conversation.
By the way, I sold a much nicer '24 roadster last year for 4500. Running, licensed and a ton of spare parts.
I sold cars for a couple of years when I retired out of the Navy. There was always the value of the trade and if they talked to their banker ahead of time it was going to be a problem.
Was trying to sell a guy a pickup one day and we were way apart as his banker said it was worth X amount. I told him if his banker would show up with a check within $3000 of that amount we could get the deal done.
An auction will always determine worth on the spot. We could buy same model year cars at the auction "program cars" for 12K and someone would be trying to trade a three year old model with more miles and demand the same money because, "their banker told them what it was worth".
Lastly, over the years I have learned worth is always determined by the buyer and never the seller.
I do not intend to offend ....
It amazes me - it really does - when someone in the family expresses an interest in saving a vehicle - the response that is received from other family members .....
ASSet is just three letters to some people who
are those three letters ...
It all goes back to this: folks on the street and bystanders ALWAYS think that if its old its worth BIG BUCKS.
Most of the time if not always its just not so.
Thanks for the input. I've mentioned it before, but this is not a hostile family situation. Our family is tight and will remain so regardless of this car. Wayne is spot on. The most important thing is the family in the long run, so any valuation that may result in hard feelings is not worth it.
This is simply a case where we are not sure of the value and are trying to sort it out.
That is why I came back to the group to see if there was someone in central PA that might be available to look at it directly.
Glad to hear your family has the right perspective. Mine does too. I went through an estate settlement a few years back. I was the executer. I was warned that I would begin to see the ugly side of my relatives. That never happened. I was so proud of each and every one of them.
I hope you get the car and that your whole family enjoys the fact you're taking care of it.
I for one think they did well at $7,500 if it wasn't running and didn't have a title.
People are funny.
What I have is solid gold and what you have is well let's just say much less than gold.