Do I really need a Fiber Washer in Rear End?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Do I really need a Fiber Washer in Rear End?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 09:29 pm:

I am about to reinstall my rear axle components in my rebuild- but don't have that little fiber washer. Is that ultra-critical or can something else suffice in its place? I would prefer not to place an order for one fiber washer.

Any ideas for those who have rebuilt their rear axles?

Thanks,
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 09:34 pm:

Honestly James you can't rebuild the rear end correctly without that washer. In fact, one by itself usually isn't thick enough. You need to get two. I'm not sure about a suitable substitute. Would recommend just biting the bullet and ordering them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 09:45 pm:

One or two disks, have them ship in an envelop. Yes it is important, it takes up the slack between the axles other wise you will have about 1/8 (+/-) of an inch in and out play in the axles. You could use a brass disk. Unless you have a good section of different thicknesses of brass, time and tools to cut one out of the proper thickness material those fiber disk might be real cheap. Sometimes you need more thickness then one disk, two might be too much but one not enough or if your lucky one might be too thick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 09:54 pm:

Okay, will bite the bullet/disk.

Thanks for the advice!
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 09:58 pm:

I have used brass washers. The hole in the middle doesn't seem to make a difference. You can use as many as are needed to make up the proper thickness and the thickness can easily be adjusted by drawing one over a file.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 09:58 pm:

Before I call a supplier, does anyone have a couple fiber washers kicking around? I'd be happy to get someone a few bucks for an envelope and two washers.

Thanks,
Jim in Oswego, IL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 10:27 pm:

Hmmm, I've used a quarter. In the case where I recut the keeper groove to move the axle gear giving the illusion of a longer axle, I used several quarters. Seemed cheaper and easier than ordering the fiber washers. These need to maintain the spacing of the axle ends and thus the axle gears with the spider gears. Washers, coins, or whatever of an appropriate diameter and thickness should be just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 10:29 pm:

James,
Lang's and Smith & Jones will only charge you actual shipping--not the minimum of $10-15/order.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 10:47 pm:

A "silver" ($'s) quarter might work but I think the embossing on the front and back might wear off and change the fit. I don't know if I would use the modern quarter, not sure about the strength of the core.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 11:02 pm:

Send me your address, James.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 11:24 pm:

I machined three different thickness aluminum bronze washers. .090 thick was the winner. Your thickness will be different, measure then adjust


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Thursday, May 15, 2014 - 11:37 pm:

Wear would be pretty slight. Some pressure and rotational wear between axle ends and spacers as the differential works when turning corners. I expect it would take a long time to get a significant change in the thickness of the spacers, whether they be fiber, brass, aluminum bronze, steel, or new quarters. I believe this is another case where there is a right way as well as many alternatives that will give excellent service even if they aren't Henry's way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 12:14 am:

I bought a foot of Delrin rod from McMaster a few years ago and just slice a piece of to use between the axles. I use a bandsaw for the cut. Works great, pretty cheap and a foot is enough for a whole lotta rear ends.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-acetal-homopolymer-rods/=rzgcxj


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 12:22 am:

I think there's something sick about someone wanting to put a fiber washer in their rearend. It's certainly become a Liberal's world. You wouldn't have gotten away with talking like this back in the fifties. Back then people had scruples. Morality was important. As if all the piercings and tattoos weren't enough and now it's come to some crazy activity with fiber washers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 01:03 am:

Gary London

"I bought a foot of Delrin rod from McMaster a few years ago and just slice a piece of to use between the axles. I use a bandsaw for the cut. Works great, pretty cheap and a foot is enough for a whole lotta rear ends."

I cut them on a lathe but you are spot on!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 01:17 am:

Gary,

I like the picture on your profile!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 01:26 am:

Some have used a ball bearing instead of a fiber washer.
It will stay in place because of the centering hole in the end of the axles.
Put some heavy grease on the axle to hold it for assembly or use some RTV and glue it to one of the axles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 01:48 am:

You can also stack up a bunch of throttle shaft disks from old carbs. Here is a trick to see how thick it should be. With the pinion gears not installed, assemble the center carrier. Push the axle ends together with one gear tight against the carrier. The space between the back of the other axle gear and the carrier is the thickness of washer you need between the axles.

I'm with Gary. I bought a couple feet of some kind of stuff years ago and it has lasted for about 70 Ruckstell rebuilds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 04:52 am:

I use a good old brass $1 coin. My linisher belt takes a little weight off Queen Lizzies face, and the kangaroos disappear as I linish the other side to get the correct fit

Your currency may vary.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 06:58 am:

Lol at Mike G. Has it thawed out up your way yet Mike?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 07:35 am:

I think this a good place to use a roller thrust washer. Think of how much less friction there will be. This will improve gas mileage and make your car more reliable.






If you are detecting any sarcasm, it could be because I'm laying on pretty thick.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 08:14 am:

I think at our age we all need fiber for our rear ends!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 09:21 am:

Steve- sent you a PM, many thanks! - Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 09:27 am:

When you buy the rear end gasket set the fiber washer comes with it. Pretty cheap insurance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 10:06 am:

I recommend using the fiber rather than metal. When you turn a corner the axles are rotating in opposite directions and you want the wear on the fiber rather than on the metal. It will also make your rear axle quieter by keeping the clearances for the gears.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 10:28 am:

Jim call me Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 12:02 pm:

Already mailed off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 03:51 pm:

Norman : can you explain me : when you turn a corner the axles rotating in the opposite directions ???
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 04:09 pm:

Mike G, if the fiber washer in the rear end makes you squeemish, don't even start about the thrust washer........

I used one fiber and a thin bit of stainless sheet I had that was the correct dimension. Some day will see what side wore the most. After about 5 years of driving, I can feel no push pull on the axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, May 16, 2014 - 04:20 pm:

The differential action causes the wheel on the outside of the turn to spin faster than the one on the inside of the turn. Technologically, both wheels are moving in the same direction, but in relation to each other it is as if one is moving backward. Jack up both rear wheels and spin one and you will see what happens to the other.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Holland, Utah on Saturday, May 17, 2014 - 08:55 pm:

James, I may be to late but I saw some one in past magazine, say you can put a small ball bearing between the two axle ends. I don't know what size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole on Saturday, May 17, 2014 - 09:15 pm:

Thanks for the ideas! Much appreciated!

James


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Saturday, May 17, 2014 - 10:04 pm:

Seth, it got pretty nice out today. Spring might happen yet before Fall gets here. Dennis, I agree. Maybe that's the problem with some of us, too much fiber. Erich, you are a sick individual. I wish I would have come up with that one. I thought mine was good but you get the prize. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 06:55 am:

Has anyone considered that if you are running safety hubs the fibre washer is pointless. In my usual fashion I set up the axle end float to zero and run safety hubs. No end float there!!!

Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, May 19, 2014 - 11:43 am:

Wouldn't it be easier set the axles to 0 back and fourth movement with a disk in place before installing the safety hubs? You would now have almost an 1/8 inch empty space between the axles without the disk in place.
I think float refers to the up and down moment not in and out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 11:16 am:

I heard once a nickel would work, but I'm pretty sure whoever said a quarter would work should do some checking! I have a bunch of NOS fiber spacers, and no, two will not work! I use one, because that is what the Ford book says to do!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 11:29 am:

One usually isn't quite thick enough to really do the trick. So you take two and thin them both down on some sandpaper. It's a process of checking the fit, sanding, checking the fit, sanding, repeat repeat repeat until you assemble the spider carrier and the axles are snug but can be turned by hand. If there's no resistance at all then your washer isn't thick enough - which means there's room for the axles to move in and out (not good).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 11:39 am:

It is a 30 second deal to find out how thick the washer needs to be. Read my post above on how to do it. Works for both standard differentials and Ruckstells.


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