Took these at the 2013 OCF thought they were neat enough to share.
I love that original interior!
Whoa (drool, drool, drool)!
Thank you for posting the photos.
Clearly it is a real 1915 Centerdoor body as it has the lower one piece rear body panel without the seams (which could be simulated with body filler/body work on a later 1916-1923 body. Compare to the 1916-1923 Centerdoor lower rear body panel that has the seams shown below:
It also has the three windshields panes that only the 1915s had. The later 1916-1923 Centerdoors only had two front windshield panes. That would be much harder to simulate on a later body.
It also has the early 1915 side and tail lamps. And not visible in the photo – the body panels are aluminum (easily checked with a refrigerator magnet). Again we cannot really tell from the photo, but the rear fenders are unique to the 1915 Centerdoor. The splash aprons are also unique as the body sits lower than the other standard USA 1915-1925 bodies. Nice car!
I wonder if it was a USA or Canadian produced Centerdoor or for that matter when did Canada assemble their first Centerdoor?
Rex, thank you for posting the photos. I’m 90% sure I have seen photos of that car or a similar one (there couldn’t be many of them) with an electric horn (assumed aftermarket and/or dealer installed) mounted on the driver’s side. If you have higher resolution copies and if you have time, would you please send then to me? You can click on my name and it brings up my profile and my e-mail address is the third line down.
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Yeah, I really enjoyed looking at those pictures - and learned a lot from this thread too! I've never seen rear fenders like that! That cute little brass handle in your 4th picture was probably owner added, huh? Hap, that windshield looks just like the one on my '19 centerdoor except for the brass/bronze brackets you referenced. Wheres the 3rd windshield?
Also has the oversized front headlights, the wood frame around the windows are more square than the later version. Gas tank is under the rear seat, and the seating design both front and rear is a different animal. BTW Hap, I got the engine and tranny rebuilt by Ron's Machine shop, and carb done by Russ Potter. I was planning to start her up for the first time this weekend, but I'll be at the Model T reunion in Richmond, IN instead.
If you didn’t know to look for the three piece windshield, it would be difficult to spot in those photos. It was the curved support arms that are easy to see and are only on the 1915 that let me know to look closer. I changed the contrast and lighting from a higher resolution photo that Rex kindly sent to me.
Below are two photos form page 22 of the Nov – Dec 1985 “Vintage Ford” (used by permission) that show the 1915 three piece front windshield.
Below is a cropped section from one of the prototype Centerdoors. It is "representative" of how the front windshield worked.
The outside windshield cannot come inside the car because the curved supports run through the windshield wood pillars as shown below.
I hope that helps you to be able to better visualize how it looks and works. Like so many cases, if you could just see one in person it makes sense a lot easier than looking at the photos.
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I can't talk for the other states, but as per my earlier thread http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/443370.html the first centredoor came to Adelaide on 5th May 1915 shipped from Canada.
I have no information if it was a US body shipped over the border or ordered & supplied by Canada herself.
For David – thank you so much for the link. I’ve been working some extra hours the past two weeks and I missed that discussion. I’ve added it to my small amount of data on the Centerdoors.
For Bob -- Thank you for the update on Ghost (for those who would like to know more about Ghost the 1915 Centerdoor that used to live in my Dad's garage and now lives at Bob's (Robert Kiefaber's) garage please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/228588.html?1313111699 http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/147081.html?1277501769 and http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/142783.html .) Bob, I’m sure you will have a lot of fun at the Model T Reunion and you can start Ghost next weekend.
For all -- To most folks a Model T is just a car and they enjoy it while they have it and dispose of it when they get tired of it. But for some reason cars are much more than that to me. They are a key that unlocks so many good memories. They remind me that I have so many people [that includes many of you] and things to be thankful for. So as you drive your T, or work on your T, or even research about Ts, I would encourage you to be making those memories with those around you. Hopefully someday they will look back and be thankful for the time you took to be with them.
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+++++ Caution off topic below: ++++++++++++
While I was typing the above, I was reminded about yesterday. I was on a military base walking through a light drizzle towards my modern car. I heard them start to play “Call to Colors.” I debated for a moment if I should keep walking towards my car or stop. I stopped and stood at parade rest. I thought about how I had been willing to risk my life for my country when I was on active duty so surely I should be willing to get a little wet while I showed respect to our nation’s flag. I stood at parade rest a little longer and then as the National Anthem began to play I placed my hand over my heart. And I was very very grateful for all the men and women who served and are serving. And especially to those who gave all so we can enjoy our freedom.
Earlier that day during lunch I had seen a few minutes of “Against the Odds” on the military channel. I thought about the story they told of one Marine unit that had charged Sugar Loaf Hill on Okinawa in the final days of WWII. The first 11 or so times they charged they were unable to secure the hill. Then the same unit charged it again and finally routed the enemy. I may have remembered it wrong but it was something along the lines of 265 Marines were in the unit when they landed on Okinawa. And after that victory there were approximately 60 of them still combat ready with the others injured or fallen. And that was one unit of the many units that were fighting on Okinawa. If it weren’t for so many who gave so much – I don’t think we would have our freedom today. And I was very grateful for the opportunity to stop and reflect on the men and women of our nation and our Allies. They truly made it possible for us to enjoy our freedom.
Respectfully off topic,
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Any time HAP, I enjoy people sharing pics and learning new things about T's!!!
Hap, here is something I found in the rear passenger window nook. It's been there a long long time.
Love the patina!
Neat find and another part of the car's story. Again best of luck at the Model T Reunion!
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So thats what the windshields (3) looked like! Thank you very much Mr. Hap Tucker! Now I'm surprised cost-cutting Henry made a swings-out and swings-in windshield that covered the same wind patterns. The bottom windshield looks just like my '19. I heard he marketed the closed cars for the women therein the bottom 'shield that routed a breeze up the dress. How incredibly dangerous when plate glass is directed at the forehead in a head-on collision. But I do see how the 'outer' windshield can open and the 'inner' windshield also can be adjusted for increased breeze on the hind legs. Bet He fired that design engineer :o)
I was at a museum in Köping, Sweden today. They have a 1917 Chalmers six-30 with a very similar window design, double upper windshields going inwards and outwards - and that is a town car with an open drivers compartment. Must have been a lot of fog to wipe off all the window panes on cold damp days..
So I think the 1915 sedan window design was a design idea of the time that Fisher got from their window suppliers and then offered to Ford, nothing designed inhouse by Ford .
Great post, Hap.
This, I do NOT know. However, I believe that the first model T sedans were not designed by Ford at all. I believe they were designed by one of the major body building companies and sold to Ford earlier in 1914. The early '15 (true '15) center-door sedans did not really fit the chassis like it should have. Some of them (I have been told and have read) required special side aprons (splash shields) in order to fit onto the frame. The two prototypes required special hood formers. The true '15s were overly complicated and finished with trim and upholstery that would have been unusual for a Ford design. Again, my belief is that the body company sold Ford on the idea, maybe as an experiment to test the idea. Several of the body suppliers used by Ford were known to have built bodies for other companies as well. I have read, but do not recall now who built the early center-door sedan bodies.
Also, I have seen nice photos and original sales brochures of nearly identical center-door sedans sold by other car companies including Maxwell and Overland around 1914 to 1917. Even the upholstery and unusual windshield look the same. Studebaker built a somewhat larger center-door sedan, otherwise similar in look. I believe I read that none survive.
After the first (less than 1000) sedans were built for sale by Ford, the sedan was re-designed to better fit the chassis and lower the construction costs to better fit the Ford plan. Henry was a smart businessman. He understood that the era of open cars would not last forever. He needed to work his way into the closed car market. Even though the early sedans were not hot sellers, he understood the need to continue with them until they became an important part of his sales.
Again, that is all supposition on my part. Ten years later, he should have been as smart with the, then outdated, model T instead of hanging onto it so stubbornly. In 1915, he was still plowing new ground with the fastest growing product in history.
Again, all my opinion. Anybody know better?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2