On August 24,2013 I posted a message titled "Floorboard error". The topic was about what I will call floorboard clips (one on the right side and one on the left side), that hold the angled front floorboards in place. These clips could be pivoted about a rivet to allow removal of the front floorboards. At that time it was reported that a late 1927 vehicle did not have the floorboard clips. That bust my theory that the floorboard clips were in all later production improved vehicles. The late 1927 vehicle was recently revisited and it does indeed have the front floorboard clips. So it presently appears that the floorboard clips were used in all later improved cars.
Last time this topic came up we not able to come up with just when Henry Ford started putting these front floorboard clips in his improved cars!
I also never did find a part number for these clips in the parts list for later vehicles!
I have what I think to be an early 1926 and it does not have the front floorboard clips. This is based on no number on the frame, and no engine number on pad(replaced engine???).
If members would lift the mat or rug and look at the front floorboards on the improved vehicles (1926/1927)to see if there is a clip to hold the "angled ones" in place, and note when their vehicle was built, we may be able to get a better idea of when this change took place.
It is interesting to note that Ford made many changes during the two year time span that the improved vehicles were manufactured.
My late '27 touring has them. The car was built the third week of March
Thanks for your rapid reply. With the touring season here, the hope is enough people will report back so that we will know within a few week period when this change actually took place!
Arnie, My Grandfather's 27 coupe has them, but because the original block has been changed and because the frame number is unreadable and the motor number on the title has been changed I can only guess it was a mid year or later production from other features on the body.
My March 14th. 1927 Roadster has them.
Arnie: Some of the features of the early 26 improved open cars are the zinc step plates in the door jambs, the "step" in the dash door jamb area of the cowl, The weaker style windshield posts with the "notch" the zinc grommets around the side curtain rod holes in the doors, and probably some others Im not thinking of. I also believe all 1926 open cars were painted black (or at least the early 26s) . Im still working on proof of that but for now that is just my opinion.
Early 26 Tudor has the floorboard clips. I know it's an early model because it also had the carpeted heel panel for the rear seat. The 26 TT Closed Cab also has the floorboard clips.
Here are the clips in my '27 Tudor with the original floor boards.
This is a great response so far in so short a time!!!!
Perhaps it was early in the 1926 model year that the clips were introduced. I have seen a few early 1926 vehicles that appear not to have them, so I think at least early 1926 model year production did not have the floorboard retaining clips.
The more responses the better we can pin point when the change took place.
Donnie, yes, many changes took place. Perhaps one day a list will be generated denoting the changes during the improved model production. I think Tom C. even told me front fenders went through a number of changes. I think he also pointed out to me that the gas tank door later edition had detents for holding it open in two different positions.
Even the rear cross member was changed in cross section shape. Thickness of the frame was also increased!
Hopefully someday the changes during 1926/1927 production will all be documented for future generations. Some are already noted, but the floorboard retention one seems not to be documented at all!
My mid year 27 roadster has them too
My Oct. 25 built Roadster does not have the clips.
My May 26 built Tudor has clips.
It may also be dependent on the body maker. Briggs and Murray were the primary supplier of closed car bodies but the early 26 Tudor I mentioned above has a "H" prefix to the body number. I'm not sure who made it.
My early Canadian 27 Touring has the clips
My '24 Tudor has clips on the floorboards which look to be original as the floorboards are tongue and groove boards. My body has Desmoines and the body number stamped in the wood inside below the passenger door.
I'm not sure of the build date of my 1927 Runabout, but according to this list ( http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm ) my car was produced in mid September 1926.
It has the floorboard clips.
My March 1926 factory assembled Roadster Pickup has the rotating clips to retain the floor boards.
Ron the Coilman.
Can you post a picture of your 1924 with floorboard clips? Perhaps I am completely wrong and the clips were added before the improved cars!
However what I do not understand is that some 1926 vehicles did not have the clips. Perhaps body manufacturer will need to be entered into the picture as someone suggested, in order to resolve this issue.
I'm looking at the kick panels on the above car. As far as I can tell, they are the originals. I have a NOS door panel from a '25, and it appears to be the same pattern.
My '22 Coupe does not have floor board clips but my '27 Touring does have floor board clips and they look just like the pictures that Craig posted above.
My 27 touring has the right side clip riveted upside down from the factory, I left it that way.
The kick panels on the picture above are from a 1927 Tudor. I do not have any issue with that.
My question is with the 1924 Tudor. If the 1924 Tudor has the floorboard clips, then one must assume that the floorboard clips were in place earlier than I had thought. The statement was "My 24 Tudor has clips on the floorboards...." The clips I am talking about would be mounted on the metal structure to the side of the floorboards. That is why I asked if Richard could add a photo to see if we are all talking about the same item!
Original Larry are you into the "improved cars"???
Arnie I can tell you that all the TT's got these floor board clips for the model year 1926 through 1927. I had to look to be sure. That would have been everything built after August 1925 for the TT's.
My 26 has an engine block dated to December of 25. It has no floorboard clips. Since I am new to the hobby it is possible that I have a replaced frame from an older car.
My '25 TT C Cab doesn't have these floorboard clips but the '26 tudor does and the very, very late '27 coupe has 'em too
My touring is a mid January '27 production and has them.
Richard Erfert could you please add a picture of your 24 Tudor floorboard clips?
If a picture is not possible could you answer if they are metal and rotate on the slanted portion of the body that supports the edges of the floorboards.
The reason I am asking is that I might need to increase the scope to include 1923 to the end of production to see just when the floorboard clips actually were started in the Model T Ford!
My 26 Tudor, built November 1925, no number on the frame does not have the clips, this is an original un-restored car with the original floor boards.
My '26 coupe manufactured in March has them.
We're narrowing it down
Anybody with a december '25 - march '26 build date?
(My bodies didn't come with engines or frames so they're unfortunately not dated - but both have floorboard clips.)
(Message edited by Roger K on October 03, 2014)
My 25 TT has the clips also
Arnie. I never mentioniond it above, but my very early (possibly pre production) rust bucket 26 touring, with all the early features, does not have the clips. My very late 27 (built during the next to last month of production) does have them. As Roger is asking above it appears to be sometime between December 1925 to March 1926 as our date of change. From doing the studies of the Improved Models changes, I have found that the vast majority of changes were done during calendar 1925. Maybe a few more owners will chime in with build dates. Arnie, I have not given up on the Improved Model studies, I will start them back up, hopefully soon. An illness in the family has diverted my research time for now ...
Seems like this task would need a trip to Dearborn and visit the Benson Ford Research Library to look up the documents.
For the Runabout and Touring body:
Part# 45093X Riser (toe board) R.H.
Part# 45094X Riser (toe board) L.H.
For the Coupe:
The drawing and Change Order sheets would most likely have this clip shown as the part would have been riveted to the riser part assembly drawing.
My 27 engine built October,26 sold from dealer January,27 has the tabs.
My 26 Tudor has them.
My '26 open car has them but I'm not sure when it was made, it has wire wheels but I am not sure if they came with the car when it was new or not?frame number is # 13831816 if that helps!
My early 26 has them. Not able to check the date of manufacture right now. It was a non electric roadster.
Arnie, after re-reading the posts above. I "think" Richard is talking about the small flat bars on bottom of the floorboards that hold them together on his 24. Not the rotating clips of the Improved models ??? Eds engine number 13411392 is a March 24, 1926 number and Dennis's frame number is a June 10, 1926 number. Looks like we still need someone with a number between Dec 1925 to March 1926 to chime in ....
Jason, When you have time, a few more details of your cars early features and the numbers would be a great help. If your car has features from calendar 1925 (or before March 1926) and also has the clips, it may help to narrow the window of the dates of changes
My March '26 touring has them.
I gave the original, non symmetrical floor boards with address words stamped on them to my neighbor to burn.
My 26 Canadian Touring (January, 1926),built in Winnepeg, has the clips.
Craig Anderson has them turned backward. The long side should be toward the floorboard.
I have them on my "improved" cars and they don't keep the floorboard bouncing up when being trailered. However, If I put something heavy on the floorboard when it is on the trailer, they stay in place. I put it to the right of the ruckstell lever just in case it might bounce on the starter button.
Mine has them...January 1926
Jim. That helps narrow it down. We have an Oct and December 1925 "without" and now a Jan and a couple March "with". Needs to be a few more of the Dec/Jan time period to help verify a good probability of the "date of change" The December date brings up something I have noticed in my studies of the Improved changes. It appears that the bulk of changes were done in calendar 1925. This is just my opinion and not worth much, but it appears they were trying to get the problems out of the way by Christmas and start a new year with the problems behind them. As a retired Boilermaker I have worked in all kinds of factories with steam power running a lot of the tools and equipment. The factories always tried to have everything caught up or under control by the holidays (New Years, Forth of July, Thanksgiving, Labor Day, and Christmas) That way when they had to shut down the boilers for us to do outage work on the boilers, it was while most of the factory workers were off for the holidays. I know Ford did not rely on steam for all its power but they used a lot of it. So it may be Ford wanted all the problems fixed by the holidays and start a new year with the factory changeover to the Improved Models behind them for the new year ... Just my thoughts, for what they are worth (not much) ... By the way, where is Arnie, ?? he started this thread ...
I am following you all along Donnie!
I thought the members lost interest in this thread some time ago!
Arnie, Glad you are still here. I was afraid you had been abducted by aliens or something ... I also thought the discussion had died, but it came back to life again, so I was just trying to keep it alive till the aliens brought you back....