OT A sad story from Montana

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: OT A sad story from Montana
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 01:37 pm:

http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/blogs/salvage-yard-ron/3500-crushed-large-montana-s alvage-yard-closes?et_mid=675148&rid=241924578


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 02:04 pm:

Steve, we can not save every old car made. The recycle folks need to help the metal supplies available for new vehicles.
This also raises the value of our Model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 03:53 pm:

Well, there is a little more to this story than meets the eye, like most. I'll tell some of it to you over a cold one some night but not here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 06:28 pm:

There has to be some politics involved here. That stuff could have been auctioned off and people would have come from all over the country. If they had sold the cars for a hundred bucks each, it would have been almost double what they got. Somethin' fishy goin' on here


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 08:01 pm:

This was widely discussed the AACA forums.......complete with video and commentary.

http://forums.aaca.org/f169/help-save-vintage-tin-366040.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 09:54 pm:

This quote bothers me,
"No one wants to pay what this stuff is worth."
Well, if a man comes up needing a fender for a 1950 Cadillac and he offers $150 it,take it.It is more than you probably got for the complete car in this display of ignorance. Last I heard scrap was .04 or so a pound.
There is more to this than is being said.
Basically the dude is just in it for the money and is getting his jollys crushing history.Perhaps casteration should be considered for him to prevent reproduction of his kind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 10:07 pm:

http://www.vincelewis.net/unsoldcars.html
Check this out. Does anyone need a new car or truck?
They could quit makeing new cars for 10 years and we would be well stocked.The recycle folks will be crushing these before long as no one can afford them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 10:46 pm:

Seems to be a hoax Mack

http://www.snopes.com/photos/automobiles/unsoldcars.asp


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 11:00 pm:

ok,sorry.I got that from a reputable friend.
I had no reason to question it because I remember years ago, about 1980, I saw on tv that GM had acres of late 70's trucks that were stored and rusting because they were unsold and they were to be crushed because of the rust. Which the 70's chevy pickups would rust bad driven or not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:34 am:

scrap iron is about $150 a ton, those cars will bring $300 to $500 each for scrap today with money in the bank. Selling them for parts will would take forever and require employees to dismantle them, and current regulations for employers are getting so bad that not many people are able to legally run a small business. As far as auctioning them off, most would be bought by scrapers for less than scrap value.
Anyone who would suggest castrating this guy are no better than people who would like to see all old cars crushed to make new jobs an cleaner air. When self righteous people get away with controlling others lives, things go to hell in a hurry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:11 am:

According to my calculations, he got about $57 each for those cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 11:01 am:

So Chuck, are you estimating those cars weigh about 700 pounds each? The $150 per ton price is unprepared price.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 11:56 am:

I thought I should add some fact instead of speculation. a short time ago, a scrapper came by and paid me $200 each for two mid 70s Ford F260s, they were only cab and chassis with both axles transmission, but the transfer case and engines were out of both and no bed. He was making money on the deal by hauling them to town to the scrap yard to resell. Now if you compare the weight of the older cars shown, you will have to agree that the older cars are going to weigh more than a new stripped down vehicle. I am unsure of the time frame of the Montana event, but if it was a few years ago, scrap prices were much higher.
Most importantly, the owner has the right to decide what to do with his own property, and given the attitude of some people here, I can see why he would not want to deal with car collectors. A few rotten apple can ruin things for a lot of decent people.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 12:20 pm:

In my youth there was an auto salvage yard that would permit folks to walk around looking for the part wanted, and were allowed to remove the part themselves. (Inexpensive, too - the owner was the only occupant of the premises, and he stayed in his office most of the time...no guard dogs, either!)

Time passed.

That permission was denied - this was before everyone sued everyone else when a cut finger ensued from careless operation of a wrench - or perhaps it was a purely accidental injury. No, it was not then a liability issue -reason given was that when a person removed a part, that person frequently damaged other parts....
Yup, another "good thing" stopped by the bad actions of a few (maybe many.
Folks just aren't careful of other's property anymore...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 12:57 pm:

"So Chuck, are you estimating those cars weigh about 700 pounds each? The $150 per ton price is unprepared price."

No, I'm estimating $200,000.00 for 3500 cars as stated in the article.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 01:52 pm:

No, I'm estimating $200,000.00 for 3500 cars as stated in the article.
Hey Chuck,
I missed that, but inventory does not mean that there were actually 3500 complete cars on the lot. also the $200,000 does not take into account the increase in value of the property and the property surrounding it as well.
I have seen a lot of these type of scrap yard cleaned up, I have a friend who did so with his, he saved the old cars, this was 20 years ago, and the old cars are still setting there.
This whole discussion reminds me of the response by a new your writer about haw land was being taken from people in the west to make wilderness areas. She said, "I may never visit these wilderness areas, but I feel better just knowing they are there." I think most people commenting negatively about this property being cleaned up really have no desire to have one of these cars, they just want to feel better knowing they are there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 02:37 pm:

I think a lot of it is a nostalgia thing. I sure wouldn't have ever gone to Montana to buy one of these things. A lot of people just feel like it's not replaceable and hate to see it destroyed. Bottom line is: it's just material and in the end it will all be gone anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 04:46 pm:

Everybody wants it when it's being scrapped but not before, i can understand the guys motive.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 05:45 pm:

i want it, but i can't have it. No place to put it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 07:42 pm:

With some PR and spin among the old car magazines and forums an auction would have cleaned up his property just as effective but would have given more money. Plus more good will and lots of parts and cars for those who wanted them. The only drawback would have been timing, he would have had to wait until summer to get the right size audience for an auction. Maybe he needed cash really fast? That's about the only real reason I can think of for this atrocity.

There is a market elsewhere for this kind of stuff - here's a '59 Chxxy 4d sitting in a field in Kansas someone tries to sell over here for $11000: http://www.usabil.nu/databas/Detalj.asp?ID=108143
59
(there are better options for that kind of money, but you get the picture..)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 08:35 pm:

Way too many zeros on that price.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:46 pm:

Too many doors too...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 11:33 pm:

The unsold cars link picture, is the Lappel Bank Car Park in Sheerness, UK.

It's an off-loading area for imported cars into the United Kingdom. If I remember it was originally a protected bird sanctuary that was illegally destroyed to build that parking lot on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 12:04 am:

MOST of those cars would have sold to crusher buyers if there had been an auction. The photos show the best cars. Most had been pretty well stripped, many were old wrecks that had already been salvaged of good parts. The yard was pretty disorganized and would have been difficult to have an auction in. As far as some other things -- let's just say that after 32 years in the auction business and knowing that this was all going to be sold and that it is only about 75 miles from me -- I made NO effort to book any potential auction. As far as I know, no other Montana auctioneer did either although I am certainly not privy to what other people in this business do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 10:35 pm:

It is my feeling folks like this were in the business for the wrong reasons from the git go.IF it was only for the money. There is more profitable things to do with acres of land if all you want is money. Like grow crops so we can eat.
This planet is so big that little spec of metal, that was drawn from the earth and still sitting on it,is a drop in the bucket.
Cleaner air.I would bet recycling those cars will create as much if not more pollution than the cars would have if they were driven. It takes alot of energy from somewhere be it desiel or electric to recycle metal.And the Chinese have little emissions control at this time and alot of the smug that Ralph and others are breathing out in Cali is coming by the Jet stream right to their door. Now I did read that some things were changeing but that will take time to help.And another volcano will erase all that effort again within a short time.
There is pro's and con's to this type thing,but mostly con's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 11:37 pm:

The fact of the matter is, it is his property and his goods to do with as he wished, end of story. I get the impression that he would rather wash his hands of the whole deal rather than try to sell the cars to car guys, but I bet he was tired of people p*ssing on his boots.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 11:55 pm:

"The fact of the matter is, it is his property and his goods to do with as he wished, end of story."

I agree wholeheartedly just as I agree that if a man wants to make a hot rod out of a model T it's his right to do so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 02:20 am:

I don't blame him for getting rid it all.
He's probably been faced with 10,000 tightwad lowballers who think he should give the stuff away.
There are only two ways to get what you need: Spend days, weeks and YEARS burning up gas, wasting your time, attending swaps and auctions OR put up or shut up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 11:30 am:

Well, I am sorry if I come accross as a jackass. But let me give you a first hand account of why situations like this give me a sour stomach.
About 40 miles from here is a yard full of 40's up cars for parts or restore.Looks like a great selection and some nice stuff out there.
I have a 47 Pontiac and went to see about some parts.
I needed a vent glass for 1 door and could really use a drivers door but will opt to repair this 1.
He had 1 car there ,a 4 door I think,and I got the vent glass from it.
85 dollars and I took it out. And the glass is separated internally so it aint first quality by any means.But my brackets were broken and rusted away so i had to have at least the frame to repair my problem.In reference to the doors he had 2 that had been pulled from a car in fair to poor condition.Not much better than mine. 400 apiece.
While I was there, he was on the phone as someone wanted to sell him a car. a 50's something."oh I will give 250 for it if it is complete,Does it have a title?"
Ok the very car I got the vent glass from had some other parts I ask about.total woulda been 400 bucks. Later the car was crushed and he got scrap.The parts I wanted probably woulda weighed 10 pounds? a dollars worth at 10cent a pound?
I mean really. He coulda sold me the clock and glove box door and other stuff for 50 bucks and still came out smelling like a rose.
It is all goes back to greed and the "I have it,you want it" attitude.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 02:28 pm:

Hey Mack,
You obviously have never run a business, a businessman has to make a profit to be able to provide the service to you. Yes, he might buy a car for $250 and sell parts off it over the next 30 years totaling $1,000, but at that rate he is not making any profit. By the time you figure in transportation, storage, insurance, interest and his time, there is nothing left to feed his family, and he is taking a chance that he will even be able to sell anything from it. From your posts here, I would suspect that it was your attitude that made him decide to scrap the car. You really did come across as a jackass in your castration post, you may be a nice guy, the interweb is bad for making things look worse than they are.
I have in the past given things away just to get rid of a jackass that was pestering me. In each case, the recipient of the item was thankful and strengthened a friendship. If I had let the chiseler have it, he would have thought I was a dumbass and come back for more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 04:34 pm:

If you own the property, where's the storage expense?? The "I have a glove box door, and you don't, so it'll be 400 bucks" mentality is a very real situation. That one part would not have made or broke the bank if he sold it cheaper.

I do run a business, and I know in my business that buying a "Widget" for 100 dollars and me selling it for a 1000 dollars, when it's only worth 300 ain't gonna fly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 04:53 pm:

Excuse me William, is land free in your area? I do not think so. The storage expense is in the form of cost of land, property taxes and many other taxes and fees that business owners have to pay.
As far as the "I need it so you should give it to me" attitude, that is crap, the typical communist mentality. That one part is like every other part that some chiseler want at a discount because they need it, and if every part is discounted, then it does break the bank. I have a friend the quit car shows altogether after he caught an A hole under his Model A removing a part. When he confronted hem, his excuse was "but I need that part!"
As far as price goes, it is easy to price common items, but when it is an item that is not easily found, then the price is set by what the market will bear. Just because someone has something you want, does not mean they have to sell it to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 04:57 pm:

I'm with Mack on this one. Back in the early 60's I worked for an auto parts store. I was basically running it. When the 4 track stereos came out, the only place you could get them were usually bigger places that bought in volume. I put a couple in stock and sold them for about what the big boys were getting. The owner of the store told me to quit selling them because we weren't making a large enough profit. So, I learned the philosophy of "if you can't make a lot of money, don't make any at all". I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 05:58 pm:

Chuck.......I agree with the "if you can't make a lot of money" part.
I always figured how much money did I make if I DIDN'T sell something.
Obviously this can't happen often or you'll go broke but I always tried to stay under the competition in selling.
The only way I could do that was because labor made up for it most times.
I also know some junk dealers are impossible.
The impossible part seems to describe the guy who wrecked all his wrecks for scrap but I still don't blame him for getting sick of it altogether.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 06:18 pm:

Hey Chuck,
Would you have been willing to work for free while you were selling those stereos? That is what you were expecting the store owner to do. From William V's comment about storage not costing anything leads me to believe that some of you guys have no idea how expensive it is to maintain a place of business. If there is not enough profit in selling stereos, then the fixed costs can not be met. If you think a marginal profit on a few items would not matter, you need to consider that the marginal items are cutting into operating capital that reduces the funds for stocking items that will pay the bills.
One thing that a good businessman knows it do not try to undercut another business that has an advantage on certain items, but sell items that you can make a profit on, other wise you are out of business.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 10:30 pm:

Well,I apologize for the off color remark sir. I aint a bad fellow, I just get aggravated and speak my mind a bit to open sometimes..
Best I understand a business can write off expenses from their quarterly taxes. Such as interest on loans, maintenance expenses.And I would think property cost,and taxes could be written off as business expense as well.Land maintenance, again,it is a business expense, so it would be a write off. Equipment to handle the parts,depreciates x% over several years.To allow for replacement at some point.


1 business that has grown and prospered in my area is Pull A Part. It is a yard that cars and trucks of all ages are bought and brought in. You walk thru a gate,sign a wavier,carry your tools and rent a wheelbarrow if needed and get whatever you want yourself. The good thing is you have a price sheet. A fender is 40 bucks. It does not matter if it is Cadillac or Volkswagen. Engines are 400 dollars. Again, Cadi or bug, no matter. Easy to deal with. It works for this major corporation with several yards, it could work for 1.
I think how they come out is they buy land in the low rent districts of citys, and they pay scrap price for the cars.Then doors,hoods,engines and such are pulled and sold and the hulk,the bulk of the wieght is later crushed and sold. So in the end a car they keep 2 months,probably triples it's money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 10:35 pm:

I understand the "logic" here, but it doesn't always translate into real life. Kind of like a company I used to work for that started contracting out our work. We actually had to bid against contractors for our own work. We always lost because our company insisted we had to figure the cost of our equipment by the day even if we only used it for an hour. The contractors loved it though. I also know I'm stupid for paying my house off because on paper I'd be financially better off with a mortgage. To each his own.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Webb on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 11:52 pm:

It seems to me by reading the above posts that a lot of people do not get it. Just cause you can take it off your taxes does not mean you are in the black. Also I get a lot of people that call me for a bid and wonder why I charge more that Home Depot or Lowes for the materials we use on the job.

A business has to make a profit on both materials and labor to carry ALL the expenses of a business, especially if you do it the correct way. That means hiring american workers not illegals.

A lot of people will go with the lowest bid which contains inferior products or illegal workers and then complain when taxes cannot repair the streets.

Bottom line the owner of the salvage yard can do anything he wants with his property.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 12:19 am:

Well, I must be a communist then....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 12:21 am:

Mack,
When you write off expenses, you only do not pay taxes on those expenses, you still have the expenses. Depreciation allows a person to take the tax break over a period of years, usually because the equipment is paid for over time as well, but again, the write off is only the tax on the money spent for the business, and if the business is not profitable, then that write off amounts to nothing (a tax break is nothing unless tax is due)
I missed Warren's post before writing the above, but I think it bears repeating.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 12:25 am:

I just thought of an example of a written off expense, last fall I put a pipeline in, it cost me just over 10 thousand dollars, I wrote it off my taxes, that means the pipeline only cost me just over 10 thousand dollars, but if I had not written it off on my taxes, I would have had to pay an additional 3 thousand dollars in taxes, so the cost is 3 thousand dollars cheaper for me because I am allowed not to have to pay taxes on money I did not make.


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