Will This Cause Me A Problem?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Will This Cause Me A Problem?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester W. Lowery TN on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 03:46 pm:

I purchase a new pinion 3/1 ring and pinion from Langs and when I got ready to install the ring gear I realized it was different. But I don't know if it will make a difference when I install it or not....The new one is recessed and the old one is not... Any help is appreciated...Chet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 03:52 pm:

I haven't used these gears, but I guess that with a 13t pinion instead of an 11t, the ring gear has to be a little further from the driveshaft axis, and this is enabled by recessing the back of the ring gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 03:54 pm:

The ring gear won't be a problem, but the pinion may not fit through the hole in the rear axle housings with them bolted together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 04:40 pm:

3:1 gears are recessed like yours, that is normal for them. Andy is correct about the pinion, it will not fit through the hole in the housings, requiring a little different assembly procedure.
Erik


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 05:42 pm:

Make sure the new recessed gear seats in the correct position on the differential carrier. I had to file off some material around the circumference of my carrier to get a new 3:1 ring gear to seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 05:50 pm:

You ask if it will cause you a problem, well if you are running it in your todor and stock engine, it might! I found that ratio to tall in top gear in my T and that had a Rajo on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Mahaffey on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 06:18 pm:

I'm afraid that the Aussie is quite correct: A 3:1 will not work at all on a tudor. It does nothing to modify your power-to-weight ratio. It just makes your engine turn slower, and on any kind of hill, you are likely to break the crankshaft.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester W. Lowery TN on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 06:28 pm:

Even with the Ruckstell I'm building to put in it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 06:34 pm:

Chester,

Your profile mentions you have been into Ts for a about a year. All that the folks have mentioned above is true concerning a Tudor or any heavy closed car with a stock engine. The good news you have not put it together yet, so you have plenty of time to review some information and figure out if you want a 3:1 gear or not. In a speedster with a modified engine -- it could work fine. Especially if you were only driving it where it was flat such as Florida. But Tenn -- probably is not what I would normally think of as flat.

Please see the excellent article on the Tulsa T site that discusses gearing, weight, horsepower etc. It is located on their tech page at: http://mtfctulsa.com/Tech/index.htm and specifically the Power and Torque article at: http://mtfctulsa.com/Tech/power_and_torque.htm Scroll down to the section: "What about High Speed Gears" where the summary is: " A 3:1 rear axle makes sense only if you have auxiliary gears, e.g. Ruckstell, a light car with low wind resistance and an engine which has been modified for more power. Even with a high compression head, a standard Model T with 3:1 gears gains only about 2 mph top speed, but can barely pull an 8% grade. If you have a heavy car or live in a hilly area, a 4:1 rear axle makes a lot of sense. Ford knew what he was doing when he selected axle ratios. "

The article has a lot of data to support their statement.

Good luck with your rebuild. And if you haven't done anything with the gears, you can probably exchange them for something else. Or it could be the start for speedster!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 06:56 pm:

I think you will be disappointed with the 3/1 rear end.
If you have a heavy later car the low torque of the engine is insufficient. A Ruxstell helps but it is a pain always using it.
In my view Ford had the standard rear axle just right and the Ruxstell worked great out West for the hills.
Iam getting rid of my 3/1.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 07:37 pm:

Chester:

All the guys around here took their 3 to 1 out and went back to the stock ratio. Every time they met even a MILD hill they would fall way behind everyone else. DONT DO IT. Every time you leave a stop light or stop sign you will regret having put in a 3 to 1. Some of the guys around here are going the opposite way they are installing 10 tooth pinions for the mountains.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 08:02 pm:

I got rid of 3 to 1 out of my Touring. Same reason.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 08:05 pm:

Limited horsepower cars have gear ratio that gives maximum speed at the rpm that makes max hp. Either 3:1 or 4:1 gears yield lower top speed in a stock T.

You can increase hp or decrease drag for higher max speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 08:13 pm:

Another choice to increase speed using a stock engine and a rear end would be to add an auxiliary transmission with overdrive. A 3 speed would give you the lower low you need, direct for most driving, and the overdrive to increase speed as you want.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Mahaffey on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 08:50 pm:

Chester,

I disagree with Henry. Overdrive of any sort, be it a three-speed or a Ruckstell with a 3:1, will NOT make your tudor any faster. It's not a speedster or a roadster. It's heavy, and it has the aerodynamics of a concrete block.

The improved tudor sedan from 1926-27 is my all-time favorite Model T, and a Ruckstell trans-axle makes it a joy to drive in hilly country. The Ruckstell low is great for parking in a tight garage or pulling stumps, and the Ruckstell high will pull you up a hill at a good 20 mph without stressing the engine. Leave Ford high and Ford low alone by using the stock ring and pinion, and your tudor will go 40 mph easily where appropriate. That's as fast as you want to go, in my opinion.

Enjoy your Ruckstell,

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 08:51 pm:

I put a 4-1 in my Fordor and have a Warford in my coupe, i was having problems with even std gearing on the hills around here, middle TN is not as bad as E Tn, you might get away with it in W TN.I also have Z heads and .250 cams in both.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester W. Lowery TN on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 09:25 pm:

Well, I wish I had of gotten all this input about the 3:1 or 4:1 on my other post months ago before I spent all the money on the 3:1. But leave it up to me I never ask the right questions. I do have a very strong motor with the aluminum Z head, 280 cam, and all the other things that I could do. But now thru all the experience's you others are having and have had I may be making a mistake if I use the new 3:1 one. And I do appreciate the honesty. I agree 40mph is as fast as I care to go as mine will go 40mph easily all day with the 4:1. Now I need to stop and decide on what to do next....Thanks for all the input and please add more....I haven't put the Ruckstell all together yet. Taking my time as it is my first one...Chet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 09:27 pm:

I have a Ruckstell with 3-1 in my 22 Roadster. It cruises very well, but is too high to use in traffic in Ford. I need to shift to Ruckstell when starting from a stop. A tudor is heavier than a roadster. My other 2 T's have standard Ford ratio with Ruckstell and they both pull the hills much better than the one with 3-1. 3-1 might be good in the plains in a location with not much traffic or stops, but anywhere with hills the standard ratio works better.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 09:32 pm:

Chester, I changed my pinion to the 12 tooth and the 39 ring, 3.25/1 I'm happy with that ratio.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester W. Lowery TN on Thursday, May 22, 2014 - 11:48 pm:

Hap, thanks for posting the mtfctulsa web site. I have been reading it for the past couple hours on gearing and other interesting things. Everything all of you have posted about the sedan is solid information (not that I was questioning you) I was impressed that so much testing have been performed. That web site has so much information for new T'ers like me to read and learn from. I am not the best mechanic by no means but I do enjoy working and building my own stuff. I just hate to do it twice or even three times. I am a has been mechanic, I own a small metal lathe and try to purchase most of the tools I need when I can afford them. I really appreciate all the advice and time you fellow T owners take to help, that not only saves time but money and embarrassing break downs....Thanks to everyone .......Chet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 03:35 am:

Kerry van Ekeren, may i ask what body style that is? i would like 3:1 and i have some parts to start piecing together an OHV and was hoping the extra power would help out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 04:44 am:

Kep, body is a 26 touring head is a 4 valve rajo, model A carbie and period bosch dissy, with the 3:1 on a good day, no wind,flat road and just a driver, it would do 55 but on a normal tour run, hills etc, the gearing just wouldn't cut the mustard, a slip back to low ruckstell still had the stock T's in top gear out pull it The old girl is in the shop now, a rebuild, back to magneto and maybe just a Z head, rajo is going on a 16 speedster project (one day) 3:1 is great in low rucks if just running around town.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:17 am:

One thing to remember is, a Ruckstell does not increase your top speed. It gives you Ruckstell low, Ford low, Ruckstell high (like having 2ed) and Ford high.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 12:29 pm:

It's easy to remember if you think of it as Stan Howe explained in the forum awhile back. He said words to the effect that you're either "in Ruckstell" or you're not. There's really no "high" and "low". In Ruckstell, your overall ratio is lower than factory stock Model T. If NOT in Ruckstell, your overall rear end ratio is factory stock Model T. If you have to call it something else, maybe you could say,...."in Ruckstell" or NOT in Ruckstell which is like "direct".


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration