Starter noise analysis please

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Starter noise analysis please
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 06:46 pm:

I just noticed a "new noise" that I do not directly recognize.

It only happens while using the electric starter and sounds like something is loose. A metallic rattle that seems associated with the starter bendix.

Function is fine at this point, but I don't want to keep going and get a failure I may regret.

Ideas.......?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 06:50 pm:

Take the bendix cover off and check the small bolts that hold spring on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 07:09 pm:

I figured that was my first move. If I have to drive it before that, I guess I will just crank start. But if I have a loose bit in there, it would be good to know about before I run again. Maybe I better keep her grounded until I have a chance to at least pull the bendix hat and have a look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 07:26 pm:

Check the starter mounting screws too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 07:49 pm:

Bendix gear counterweight has come off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:04 pm:

Ha, Tom, I didn't even know there was such a thing. Where is that located? What does it look like? And did it go into my transmission?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:14 pm:

Forgot, what is the fix for this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:15 pm:

Also, while I have it open, what other work would be smart to do or check?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:34 pm:

Erich,
I don't think the counterweight has separated from the shaft, only from the pinion. Here is a picture of the assembly. The counterweight is part of the pinion gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:46 pm:

That makes sense as it sounds like a metal ring spinning around a shaft. What is the best fix? Also, the other questions I asked above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:48 pm:

As long as I have it this far apart, I may just pull the starter motor and look it over. Probably install the improved oil seal if nothing else. What other service suggestions are recommended?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:49 pm:

Replacing the bendix is the fix, I don't think there is much else you can check through that opening.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:51 pm:

If you are going to pull the starter and install a seal I would also replace the babbitt bearing with a modern roller bearing. Chaffins sells the bearing with a bushing will take all end play out of the starter and will spin really well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 09:56 pm:

Here is a picture that Ron Patterson posted of the bearing and bushing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:01 pm:

Great idea. This way I can just take it apart and see what else it needs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P Noonan on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:06 pm:

Just had mine apart a few weeks ago, i would suggest buying the new bolts/lock-washers if it seems they have been bent back and forth multiple times like mine was, it was like $3.00 for the added security. Also leave the bendix cover screw closest to the hogs head at the 3 a clock position in the head if possible, its a pain in the neck trying to thread that one back in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:30 pm:

Erich
Fasten your seat belt, you're in for a ride.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:35 pm:

Ha, Ron, I hear you. I did rebuild the generator with the help of several books and a lot of your kind assistance so the starter no doubt will be some adventure I'm sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P Noonan on Friday, May 23, 2014 - 10:47 pm:

While we are on the starter subject, has anyone tried the 6 volt Delco-Remy starter from Macs that claims "This starter gives modern V8 starting power & reliability to the Model T engine"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 03:51 pm:

Now that I see where the little plunger is located via this photo, what are the chances that it is still in place if indeed my counter weight ring has come loose? I sure hope it isn't loose in the transmission now?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 12:52 am:

Well, I fixed it. Actual issue was not what was advised above, but it mimicked that counterweight issue. All parts were present and in good condition.

SOMEONE (I bet it was me) who was last in there didn't correctly bend over all tabs on the two bolts. Both were loose and were contacting the inside of the hat as the bendix spun around. I checked all parts and they are in very good condition, original parts. Cleaned, reassembled, functioning as new. Hurrah.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 12:54 am:

I reread above and Greg Whaley did nail it. Have you had this happen?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 11:41 am:

Erich-
I've never had that problem.

Stemwinders don't need no steenking starter motors...

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 12:51 pm:

Very fortunate the bolts didn't come out and get into the crankcase. Easy fix though.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 01:28 pm:

Erich,

Yep. Only once. Then I made sure to double check that the washer tabs are bent up properly to hold the bolts tight :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 07:07 pm:

A few subtle things about the early Model T Starter and Generator shown in this picture. I'll bet only Ken Kopsky noticed these as I did.
!
The starter has the early unique brush cap seal and the mounting bracket snout is not ground to prevent damaging the magneto field ring when removing the starter.
The generator does not have the oil slinger.
Ron the Coilman


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