Slipping in high

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Slipping in high
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:05 pm:

I cant figure out why my car keeps slipping in high. I must not be adjusting the bands properly. I tighten and loosen them but I am still slipping/ They are fairly new kevlar bands so does anyone know what I am doing wrong? Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:19 pm:

Yes, your clutch pack is slipping, bands do nothing in high.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:20 pm:

The high gear clutch adjustment is done via three screws on the rear plate, see attached picture from the service manual, the procedure is shown in chapter XXXV, page 246.

clutch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:25 pm:

A couple of causes but know that the bands have nothing to do with slipping in high.

Clutch spring is weak or needs adjustment to increase pressure on the clutch pack. no more than a half turn at a time on the three fingers.


Park lever is contacting the floor board and not releasing the pressure on the clutch fingers.

Clutch pack is worn or has cracked plates. This would require removing the engine to check so check the first two suggestion first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:25 pm:

The bands don't control high gear. The clutch pack is basically high gear. It's a direct lock up of the crank to the driveshaft. There have been many posts regarding the adjustment of the collar and linkage. I'm on my iPhone and I'm sure someone will post the page on the adjustments of linkage and collar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Cook on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:31 pm:

Alex,High gear is not connected to the bands. If high gear is slipping you need to adjust the clutch by removing the inspection plate and turning the fingers inwards. If you search "clutch adjustment for model T ford" you will find a diagram showing you what to do. If you have an original clutch there will probably no damage done as they are fairly durable. The Jackrabbit clutch does not cope with being slipped too much. Would suggest not driving the car until you have dealt with this. Not a difficult job to adjust, just make sure to tie some dental floss or string to the split pins before removing (ask me how I know this) Hope this helps. Chris.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:34 pm:

Before you adjust anything inside the transmission, check the length of your parking brake rods. If they are adjusted too long, they will push the parking break lever back when you go into neutral or low. Then the next time you shift into high the clutch will slip. With the parking lever all the way forward, the rods should be adjusted so that the clevis pin goes right in without forcing the rods back. Then try the parking brake while driving slowly. If it pulls to one side, tighten the opposite side rod 1/2 turn at a time until it pulls evenly. Try shifting now. If it still slips, then go for the internal adjustment of the fingers. Be sure to pack the area around the fingers with rags because it as very hard to get a cotter pin out if it should be dropped into the transmission, and if you don't get it out and you drive it that way, it could cause damage. After you adjust the fingers be sure to pull out all the rags and replace the inspection plate before driving.
Good luck.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:37 pm:

Another thing which will help your shift into high is to push up the throttle as your pedal passes through the neutral position, then after you let it out into high pull the throttle down. The idea is to get the engine running at the same speed it would in high so the disks don't slip. Try this, and see if it helps before making any adjustments.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:44 pm:

Everyone,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will try messing with the car tomorrow and I will see what happens and post the results. Now that I know that the bands have nothing to do with shifting into high I should be able to figure this out fairly quickly. In my opinion, from hearing what has been said here it probably has something to do with the clutch. Thanks again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 08:51 pm:

Also, I just want to make it clear that the car is shifting into high, but when its in high it shutters when you give it gas (band slips). I dont know if uou guys were under the impression that it doesnt shift into high at all. Again, it is going into high, but band slips in high.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 09:08 pm:

As others have said the bands have nothing to do with high gear. You are describing the situation where there is slippage in high gear that could be caused by a number of things. But not the bands. You are using the wrong terminology. I would try adjusting the clutch screws as that is the most likely culprit. If you don't have a copy of the Ford manual, it would be a wise investment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 09:22 pm:

Richard, thanks for the response and your opinion. I will adjust the clutch screws and see what happens and yes I made a mistake by saying a band slips in high...i should have said the clutch is slipping in high. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 09:39 pm:

Alex, when you adjust the screws, make sure to adjust them out to increase the pressure and in to release the clutches. If you are slipping, turn the screws 1/2 turn counter-clockwise to increase the pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 09:53 pm:

Hey, did anyone mention the bands have nothing to do with high gear slip? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 10:00 pm:

clockwise would be better as that will increase spring pressure.

a bit more on clutch finger adjustment. I would check to see if all three finger have about the pressure on the clutch. It is a feel thing, if one finger is easy to move you would want to tighten that one up the same as the other two, that maybe all that is needed. Drive the car and see if it slips and adjust again at 1/2 turns per.

good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 10:40 pm:

It probably means someone rebuilt the engine using a Jacked up / Watt happened to my clutch / Turbo Fail or similar non - original clutch pack. These packs have a reduced amount of clutch surface area due to fewer discs compared to the factory Ford setup. These non - original style clutch packs have to be adjusted properly and driven properly to get good service life. Out of adjustment and / or inexperienced driving techniques can ruin one in an afternoon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Saturday, May 24, 2014 - 11:36 pm:

Well Royce you did a good job of pushing Rob out of the picture. Is this your next victim? Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 06:52 am:

I think James Michael Rogers has it backwards. Counter clockwise would reduce the pressure on the clutch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 07:24 am:

Perhaps the source of the confusion is that the T clutch works opposite from more modern clutches. Modern clutches RELEASE when the throw-out bearing presses against the fingers of the pressure plate. A T clutch is ENGAGED by pressing on the fingers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 09:44 am:

Robert Scott Owens - if you have something constructive to add that is useful in a technical nature you should post here right now. Do you disagree with something I said?

If you come here strictly to make personal attacks, what does that say about you?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 09:59 am:

Mike,

Glad you said that about which direction to turn the screws.
I just want to add DON'T FORGET THE COTTER PINS! After you finish adjusting.

Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 10:06 am:

Also, please recheck the adjustment of your relatively new kevlar bands now that you know this is not part of the clutch issue. I would hat to have one of those bands to tight and overheat a drum in there. Good luck and just don't drop a cotter pin down there. Let us know how you do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 11:25 am:

Everyone, again thanks for the info. It was the three screws on the clutch. I tightened all three 1/2 turn and then re adjusted the low band (using the pedal to floorboard method) and it is now absolutely perfect. So thanks everyone for the great advise. Attached is a picture of my car. I just finished the restoration which was started but never finished by my dad and uncle 35 years ago and I can now finally enjoy the car!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Georgetown TX on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 11:27 am:

Beautiful car Alex!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 11:32 am:

I had to do the same thing on our 15 Roadster to stop the clutch from slipping.
Nice car Alex!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 11:39 am:

What a lovely car! Now that you're able to drive it, you need to take it to a suitable Model T setting and shoot some portraits of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 12:10 pm:

Alex,

It may be wise to check your neutral adjustments. Since the clutch pressure screws were turned, it may change this relationship. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/309819.html?1346804649


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Dragone on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 12:36 pm:

Thanks for the great comments, the last time that this car was together and driving was in 1925. The owner bought it new in 1915 and stored it away in his barn in 25 after his son did not want the car. My uncle bought it at the sons estate sale in Meriden CT for $200.00 in 1978 and its now back on the road! Also thanks John for the heads up, but my neutral feels pretty good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Bohlen, Severn MD on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 01:45 pm:

Alex,

Beautiful car!
Glad you got it.
Just remember, Lizzie will always be at the ready to teach you something.

Enjoy.
Drive safe.
Larry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 02:13 pm:

I guess I was backwards :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop, San Diego on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 02:30 pm:

Beautiful car Alex, and great history!
I guess I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I was going to mention that when I did my car, the only way I could get my fat hands in to adjust the triple screws was to put a 1/4"(?)socket on my smallest ratchet and then put the flat blade screwdriver attachment into the socket (easier to judge a half turn also).
BUT, I wanted to make sure that you wrap the socket and screw driver with a piece of duct tape to keep it all together and not come loose and fall into the trans.
Don't ask me how I know!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Cook on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 06:36 pm:

Great looking car Alex, and just about my all time favourite year model. Such a good feeling when you learn a bit more about the Model T. This forum has made owning and driving these cars a delight!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harris, Huntington Beach California on Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 07:09 pm:

Alex: Your car looks just like mine! Very nice :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Griffin on Monday, May 26, 2014 - 09:19 pm:

Thumbs up on the smooth white tires!


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