Okay, what's your guess for the highest bid?
I'm saying $33k
I place it at 25-30K.
For my money - I would rather spend less for something I could actually drive down the road in ...
The advertising says it's what you would have seen in a 1911 showroom, but actually it's better. A lot more work and money went into the restoration than was used in the original manufacture. It is a gorgeous thing.
I doubt if bidding will meet the reserve. Cars don't pull high prices on eBay. Okay to sell junkers but not well restored cars. I agree the bidding will top out around $33K
I think over $40 - 50K is the value of the car. For that kind of money it would be nice to get a fan belt.
If it were mine I would remove the AACA advertising from the radiator and drive the car.
I'll throw in at $45K.
Royce.... If you buy the car, I'll buy you a fan belt.
To bad it was ever restored, Im sure a lot of good original parts were replaced.
I will guess it will sell for 38,500.
Although most will never do it...officially I 'think' that the moral commitment to receiving a National Senior award calls for the badge being removed on re-sale...and the new owner being required to start all over again as a first junior consideration/contender within AACA. A provenance check made with AACA will only confirm the car owner at the time of the award and not the car itself.
It's not an AKC chipset buried in a dogs collar bone, but they sure can look good.
FWIW, I only 'think' I'm correct.
If I could afford to get a car that nice, The tires would be worn out in a season and it would be covered in oil and dust within a week! A guess would be 45k, Im sure there is prob more than that in it!
That's just a few miles from me. I work in Eugene. I guess the owner doesn't do too many local shows with it; I've never seen it at a show in the 25 years or so of attending them around here.
Nice car. Not anything I would buy as I don't own works of art, only drivable vehicles. But it is definitely a beauty.
Unless they come up for sale or you are "in the circle" cars like that mostly remain hidden.
Hum, the car is listed as being in Eugene but for pickup in Portland, makes you wonder what else he has!
What's the point in owning them if they are kept hidden? I don't get that thought process at all.
Hello All -
I am the person listing the T in question for sale. Yes, it does come with a fan belt. The current owner removed it while the car has been stored in his showroom/garage.
George in Cherry Hill - That is my understanding as well. The AACA Sr. badge does not transfer to a new owner. This car received Sr. status in 1989.
If there are any specific questions I can answer regarding the car, please let me know. Happy to help.
I believe the AACA recently changed its rules so that a senior, as well as a junior, award stays with the car if it's sold. Grand National awards lapse. Don't hold me to this - I'm only a peripheral member of AACA.
I have a Buick and a Cadillac that are both senior award winners. And they aren't hidden! I toured the 1912 Buick 1400 miles last year, and the 1907 single-cylinder Cadillac 600 miles. That's what they're for, isn't it? If I had that '11 Ford, it would be driven.
I agree with Mike and Royce...while it may not achieve this on E-bay, it's no doubt gonna go sooner or later for real close to $50K. That car is gorgeous.
If I could sell my '12, '15, and maybe the Firetruck all at the same time, I'd go for it!
I'd love to own it, but my wife could never keep that much brass polished.
That is one beautiful car.It had a lot of nice work
done on it.
I'm with Royce. I feel the car will top 50k.
As for the AACA award,I think the award stays with
the car.I believe after 10 years a new owner can go
for it again in his name.When I register for a AACA
show,it always has a spot for previous owner
As far as driving a show car. My 1911 got it's first junior in 1996.
Since that time, my wife Mary and I have been in every state east of the Mississippi and a few west
of it,for tours or shows.
We are on our forth set of tires and have been the engine twice.
At present I am cleaning the car up for the AACA
grand national show in Lebanon Tenn. in June.
After that we are going to the MTFCI tour in Boone NC.,Then on to a tour in Maine in Sept.
Our 1911 T touring is not a trailer Queen.
Very nice restoration. Seems to be very authentic,but I find it hard to believe that it had a 12 rivet rear axle in it from the factory. I would think it should have the late style 6 rivet with straight axles and 6" hubs.
Agreed that the 1912 rear axle was not furnished with this car, since the motor serial pre-dates this clamshell style by at least 3 months. Attractive is the scalloped pinstripe job on the hood, but was not an OEM stripe pattern. Curious why the rear seat cushion has the typical header panel but front cushion is rolled over pleats?
Note that this car got its awards 25 years ago. Did we know as much about the finicky details then as we (think we) do now?
That's a good point, Gil. I also think AACA judges know much less about the finer points of T's than a good MTFCI judge and many of us "ordinary" Model T'ers. .
I bid 30k and reserve not met
Love to buy it and drive the poor thing
That's the spirit; good man. So when you get the car what's the plan? Add a Rajo, or Warford or e-timer or all three???
Put some black tires on a new set of Stutzmans wheels and go driving.
Oh and a fan belt!!
I believe the guy who restored the car didn't tour in it or show it much because he got tired of getting into fist fights with other T guys about whether the rear end was factory fitted or not. You might want to work on your left jab, right cross combination while waiting for the Stutzman wheels.
Thanks for the advice, I am new to the Model T world but not to the old car hobby and been in a dust up or two over the years with "differences in opinion" lol.
FYI, I bid 35k and reserve still not met
How drivable are these earlier cars? I read about some of you who seem to put lots of miles on them.
Is this car any less drivable than my '15?
Honest...not trying to start anything here
It's as drivable as you want it to to be. However, every dent, scratch or broken crankshaft etc. will need to be repaired and it will be very hard to keep it in pristine condition if you drive it.
For me personally, I don't enter my cars in shows where prizes are awarded. I do as much of my own work as possible and it is not quite as perfect as professional work. I know people who even have their cars "detailed" by others and don't do any work on their own cars. These are the people who replace the tires when the mold mark on the tread is worn off. It might seem prestigious to get a prize for someone else's work, but I get more enjoyment from working on it myself and driving it. I have also found that the rusty car with parts from several years will get more attention from crowds than the perfectly restored ones.
Anyway, an 11 is quite old and made before the production line, so it is worth more, especially if it is in original or restored to original specs.
Good luck Jamie! Get it and drive the "new car smell" right off of it. With how pristine everything is I bet you could drive the mess out of it before anything needed attention. Just grease and oil everywhere well and it'll run down the road.
Thanks for the input. I do all of my own work except for final body finish and paint. As I said a new set of Stutzman wheels and some black tires however, I am sure someone who would want to preserve the car will probably end up outbidding me.
But hey, you never know.
Our 1911 is my favorite car to drive. I don't drive it like your 26 touring though. Parts for the 11 are more expensive to replace and find but other than that it is a very usable car. If being driven a lot I'd add a front wishbone brace and maybe a truss for the rear end.
One nice thing since this is an older restoration there is a better chance that there aren't as many reproduction parts on this car.
Wish ours looked this good.
I've seen this car in person. It is very nice.
The restoration work is very nice and, not to be critical, there are only a couple of things that are a little off. The car has a nice set of side curtains with it that are not entirely correct. The gas lamp plumbing is not quite right either, but we have learned a lot of things in the past 27 years.
The car needs to be driven!
I have a front wishbone brace on my 1911.
Ned: I'd like to see some pictures of your 1911.
: ^ )
My 15 received a First Junior at Hershey last year and that same day we proceeded to the 2nd annual Hershey Hangover tour with it! It's hard to keep it nice driving on gravel roads.
An absolutely beautiful car! But i would be petrified to drive it as to do damage to it, and at that cost, would the new owner? I know this is a big debate between drivers and collectors..If you have the money to buy this car and preserve it for history, i salute you, if you have the money to buy it and drive it,...I salute you more.
Is it worse than spending $50K on a new Corvette that will depreciate 20% a year?
Will this 1911 depreciate that much?...Corvettes are still flowing off the production line, this car, not so much.
Reserve not met yet. 1 day to go
Looks like the hood former is black, while the rest of the body is midnight blue. Is that correct?
Hood and hood former would have been the same color. However they could have been painted on different days or in different batches of paint so the shading might have been slightly different originally.
Original 1911 pictures that I have do not show hood formers darker than hoods in any case.
Now, if the 1911 pictured in the New York photo were found in that original condition, it would well be worth what the reserve is on the redone, but not truly restored T. "Restored" means just that, all original type parts and colors. All correct as to what the T was when brand new.
Why do the engine number and the number on the firewall not match on this car? They match on my 1911, and it is my understanding from my research that these numbers should match on the early T's.
As I have been bidding on this car what numbers should match and where did you see the difference?
Whether you stare at it in your garage, show it or drive the tires off of it, it is a great car. Someone will be a proud new owner. At the moment, the 43K price seems cheap.
If you look under the VIN number on the Ebay ad, there are 2 numbers, 49,746 and 62,638. The 62,638 is the number on the firewall plaque as shown on one of the pictures, and I believe the number 49,746 is the engine number based on the April 1911 date. It is my understanding that these 2 numbers should match on the early Model t's.
One other thing I see is my understanding is that the clamshell rear end came out in July 1911 which would be correct for when the body was manufactured based on the firewall number but that is too late for when the engine was manufactured based on the engine number
your going to spend that kind of money on that T and what park it so it doesn't get ruined you can't drive it to enjoy it unless you have money to burn.. Going to take your clothes off and sit on plastic so you don't ruin the interior. might have to put in your living room so the moisture does ruin it in the wet weathers.... I rather buy a Packard , Cadillac, etc in that same year better investment & resale...
Thanks for the clarification
No sale at $44k
Holy smokes. I think they're crazy for not taking anything over $40K. Looks like you made a valiant effort Jamie.
"They're worth less than you think"
This is the point where the seller and high bidder try to get together on a price.
Well, ok, I get it that it's in great shape and blah blah blah but it IS still a Model T. It's not a Cadillac, or a Stutz, or a Mercer, it's still just a T. I wonder what they had the reserve set at?
I like the picture that Royce posted in the picture above. Check out the rear wheel and hub. It has the straight axle hub making it an early 1911.
I agree, great photo Royce. Very clear and able to see the detail. Thanks for sharing.
Once again collectors who spend much time, effort and considerable money to properly and painstakingly restore their Model T Ford are condemned to hear that both senseless and curious statement, ĎItís only a Model Tí.
Letís just put aside the fact that really well restored Model T Fords have sold for considerably more than the highest bid on this 1911. Auction records confirm this particularly for early brass era Model Ts.
What exactly does Seth or others like him wish a Model T owner, who has spent substantial resources to restore their cars, to do? Should they just give their car away to the highest bidder because itís, Ďonly a Tí?
Yes, letís discourage collectors who really want to do an excellent restoration on their Model Tís. Letís tell them they are foolish to invest money into their cars which they love because they are only Model Ts.
This has to be ironic nuttiness to the extreme. Here we have Model T collectors essentially dissing the worth of the very cars they collect. I have seen this many times on this forum. It just seems utterly incomprehensible to me.
You could not restore that 1911 car to that condition for forty thousand unless you have the talent to do much of the work yourself.
We should all be hoping that this seller gets the price he wants. Thatís good for him and thatís good for those of us who collect and restore these automobiles.
These cars, especially in this condition, warrant attention and appreciation. They are also due a little more respect from those who continue to refer to them as, ďonly a Model TĒ.
Like anything, a T is worth whatever the cadre of interested buyers will spend on it. Isn't it great that the value has been going up on these cars? To some it is only a T, but to others it is very valuable. The group making the purchase dictates the perceived value, so , once again, the market sets the value no matter what some of us think of the prices. Would I love to have a T like that? Sure would. I will have to wait till santa brings me one and I'm not holding my breath.
Just wait another 50 years and tell me what you think of the prices..........
Well said Roy. To disagree with your points would be to punish and mock ourselves.
At least those of us who have a certain pride in their cars...
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with Roy's position. These different perspectives are what make the hobby the living and breathing "organism" that it is.
Some folks like collecting works of art, which is what this Model T has been elevated to. It is no longer an interactive piece of equipment.
Because of its beauty and the dollars invested, it will now be relegated to be seen by "only those in the circle" as someone said above. Much like a rare painting on the wall of some rich tycoon.
Others, like me, wouldn't buy a spendy work of art even if we had the cash to do so. It's not because we don't appreciate the car for what it is but because we don't appreciate the car for what it "isn't". It isn't a daily driver. It's not something you're going to take to a relative's home and let nieces and nephews and grandkids crawl all over it. And it certainly isn't something you're going to spend time working on and learning about. Not when you have that kind of dough. You'll find a grease monkey to do it for you.
(Yes, I know, there's always exceptions.)
I parked my model T in the driveway at night when it wasn't raining and pulled it into a carport when it was. I kinda like that about a car. And I bet I had as much or more fun with it than many of the art collectors do with theirs.
Just my two cents as they say.
And Greg, I have to ask, surly you're not suggesting that only people who spend a lot of money on their Model Ts are capable of having a "certain pride" of ownership are you? Seems a rather elitist position to take from where I'm sitting.
(surly = "surely")
No I did not say that Dan. It doesn't matter, in my view, what kind or year T you have, I just agree with Roy that to say , "its just a T" kind of seems like a knock to me. I don't know how else anyone can interpret that phrase. I was responding to this particular case of a well restored car. But I feel the same for any Model T and I do agree that it seems odd to knock something you collect.
My dad had many T's ,non brass era and brass era, many of which he did not restore and kept original but I never heard him say anything like they are only T's. He seemed to have a real respect for all model ts, no matter what the condition.
I said nothing elitest . That's just your incorrect interpretation which was not responsive to Roy's central point. And I hardly think Roy is suggesting what you imply either.
But as Roy, stated, I find it strange that a collector would own any T in any condition yet refer to it as "only a T". So its not Roy and I being elitist its those who say its only a T who are being negative and somewhat denigrating of the Model T.
Why would you treat a $50K T different than a $50K Corvette?
Because the Vette is only a Chevy.
Good one Steve...
If it's not a T then what is it? I have owned some mighty fine muscle cars, most worth far more than my T, in the past 20 years. I'm known for my quote among friends and family who would oogle them in awe when I said, "Don't get too excited, it's just a car."
Again, not to diminish the nice ones, but at the end of the day, it is still "just a car" in my view. If that chips away at the pride some folks hold for their cars, I make no apologies. It is what it is.
Ralph, I'm guessing a $50K Corvette(assuming it's not a 50s or 60d vintage)would get driven more than a $50K Model T. I know I would if I had it...grin..
The added benefit or more readily available parts helps make it a little different too I would think.
Danial, you can get more parts for a Model T than a ten year old car.
Gene Carrothers drives his 1912 Torpedo with original engine and drivetrain at high speeds, and all the national tours, yet wins at every car show.
I would treat that 1911 like any other new car.
Ah ok. Over the past few years I have read about folks agonizing here over the difficulty in getting correct parts for their early Ts. I always understood that the plentiful parts were mainly for the later Ts. My mistake.
You are correct...it is very difficult to find the correct parts for the early brass Ts now. Generally speaking, it is much easier to find parts for the later Ts.
The value of the early Ts is very much dependent on all of the correct components being on the car. On this particular car, the number on the body tag (62,638) and the rear axle (from July 1911 or later) would indicate that this car was built in August 1911. This assumption is consistent with the ebay ad which also says that the rear axle is original to the car. So, the fact that the engine number is 49,746 (April, 1911) would indicate that the original, closed valve engine for this car was replaced at some point with an earlier, open valve engine which would not be correct for this car.
Is it a beautiful car? Absolutely! Does it have all of the correct components for either an April or August 1911 car? It does not appear to and that can drastically affect its value.
I guess I'm pretty much in Danial's corner. I appreciate that it's beautifully done - it's crossed into "work of art" territory. I just can't identify with the folks who want to have something like that and not treat it like it is: a car.
In many ways this to me is like the guy with the Coca-Cola delivery T. It's beautiful, a work of art. And maybe it cost the creator a mint, but that doesn't mean he's going to get $60K for it. Same with this T - it might have cost the restorer $75K to make it look like it does and that doesn't really factor in a price for the time/effort involved. Granted, the Coke Delivery T was that guy's creation and not an attempt at restoring something historically accurate - I can appreciate the difference. But, for ANYthing that someone spends time, effort, and money on - it can be made more valuable (valuable defined as what other folks will pay for it) up to a certain point, and then you aren't going to get any more money when you sell the item regardless of what else you put into it.
And I'm not trying to discourage anyone from restoring a T. The more on the road the better. If I had the money I'd spend the time and effort and money to make one about like it. But this one isn't on the road and for the group of folks bidding on it, it was worth about $45K. If the seller can get more for it somewhere else or some time else, then good for them.
I agree with Dan. The engine has been changed in this car. The open valve engine in this car is number 49,746. Believe it or not my 1911 has a closed valve engine number 49,747. They were making both open and closed valve engines at that time but being one number apart is quit a coincidence. Someone would be happy to trade the open valve engine for a latter closed valve I am sure. I even have a chassis with a number 64,239 that would be closer to his body tag number. No matter what he does with it, it is still a very nice car.
Don: One of my 11s has # 50,037.It is an open valve engine. The other is 48,222, also open valve. If I remember right the casting date is the same on both engines. Dan.
Dan Hatch: They made a lot of changes in 1911, maybe more than any other year except for the first 2500 1909 T's. Unless you are lucky enough to buy an all original 1911 it would very hard to get it back to being authentic.