I see exhaust gas temp monitoring on aircraft, some racing engines, has anyone in the high performance T world used this to monitor and make adjustments?
If so, how did you do it and how did it work out?
The '24 runabout I recently procured has been in the Montana 500 a number of times and came to me with an exhaust temp sensor attached to the pipe a little past the pack nut, with the gauge mounted where the ammeter usually lives. I have not had the car on an open road long enough to see how mixture influences the temp (too busy watching out for the super-geniuses that are texting while driving), but spark advance definitely makes a difference, and quickly. At 30-35 MPH, if the spark is a bit too retarded, the temp goes up to about 1,200 deg. (F), but advance it a bit, the temp quickly drops to about 900, and you can hear the engine pick up a little as well, without touching the throttle. I'm still learning about this car, but would not consider it to be in the realm of "high performance". "Tuned for efficiency" might possibly be a better term. It still has the MTA seals on the NH carb.
Brian, Did you buy Ted Ballards car?
As Brian indicated it seems that some MT 500 cars have ran a EGT and O2 sensors as well. That makes sense and takes some of the seat of the pants air/fuel and timing adjustments to a level above the standard Model T. Maybe another useful indicator would be a direct read out of the engine timing. I guess that a person could calibrate the spark control lever.
For a discussion of both the EGT and O2 sensors see:
Mike, I believe it used to be Ted's car. There have been a few other owners in between who also ran it in the MTA500. At the risk of stirring up a hornets nest and hijacking the thread I mention the following: I'm pretty new to T's, and have seen a number of discussions about engine cooling, water pumps, etc. When this car came to me it didn't even have a cooling fan (or any other cooling aid such as a pump). The prior owner told me they ran it in the 500 like that, and drove it around town without overheating as well, but never had it in a parade or other very low speed situation. I had the same results but put a fan back on it for the safety factor when I get slowed down in traffic. I'm curious if anyone else runs a 'stock' T without a fan, and what does this say about the perceived need by some for water pumps?
Brian, no. But I was in a T one time at a red light when it began spewing antifreeze. The cause was a fan belt that had slipped off the hub.
I can also tell you from parade experience that if the T gets too got, the best solution is to keep the engine running and the car moving. It takes a long time for it to cool down naturally.
I NEVER run a fan they are so prone to breaking blades that it isn't worth the risk. The Ford fans are a bad idea, and if you are insistent on running a fan install an electric fan or plastic replacement.
With a new radiator from Bergs, a clean block, no water pump, I never run a fan. Never run hot and never need to add water. Even in hot weather.
So any more info on how folks have used EGT and or O2 sensors?
Use an EGT gauge unless you are running fuel injection. (Some do!) Jim's link discusses why.
An EGT on a Model T? I'm not a Montana 500 racer but if the rules allow that sort of thing . . . I don't know, that's just a head scratcher for me.
The link said that an EGT gauge would not react fast enough to control a fuel injection system. A EGT gauge has been a standard gauge on small carbureted aircraft for ages and aids in the air fuel mixture adjustments. To use the EGT gauge you would lean the mixture until the temperature peaks, then enrich it until the temperature is 25 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit lower.
I think the O2 sensor is newer technology and a more accurate indicator but both the EGT and O2 sensor would help to show exactly what is going on.
Oh man, this would put you up there with Oak spokes, non- Ford clutch, disc brakes, distributor and the E timer,and the, would it still be a T bunch, just being sarcastic.
The EGT doesn't need to react as fast as an O2 sensor and the EGT has a wider range of operation. The EGT still reacts pretty darn fast and you don't need to read EGT down to the tenth degree. It also starts reading immediately where an O2 sensor does not.
I did NOT say use an EGT for fuel injection. I said use an EGT gauge UNLESS you are running fuel injection.
Hey Rick, I'm definitely not in the "hardcore original only" crowd - lol I have a 6V alternator, an ahooga horn, and sealed beam headlamp bulbs in my gas headlamp buckets. I have a '26/'27 stearing column in my mostly '14 brass speedster (5 to 1 gears). I just have seen some of the gauges allowed in the Montana 500 race that seem odd to me. Since it's such a 'stock' car only race. I'm not saying I have a problem with it, just that it's a head scratcher.
The MT 500 rules says "gauges are optional". That means any gauge for any reason. I've seen T's with motometers, dip sticks, tachs, speedos, vacuum gauges, gas gauges, water and oil temp, clocks, altimeters, air speed indicators, rate of climb and turn and bank indicators, well, maybe not the last two, but all of the others and an EGT. More than once on the EGT. I think the attitude of the MT 500 is that gauges don't make you go faster, but might let you know if something is going wrong to perhaps allow you to save your engine. I suppose that it could be argued that an EGT might help you go faster, but I think if you rely on your EGT and I rely on my seat-of-the-pants to adjust my carb, that I will beat you.
Erich - Flat tube or original round tube in your new Berg's rad?
You're correct, I miss-read your post.
About gauges on the MT 500, I see that last years winner had enough gauges to choke a horse. Looks like maybe a couple vacuum, speedo, EGT, O2, temp and a compass. I wonder how much they were used??
I agree with Tom, maybe the real benefit would be to save the engine and maybe for fuel economy rather then speed.
Is that a T, or a B-29?
Hey Jim, You missed a few more that Garrett Green has on his winning Touring,
Steve, I know some of the bashers would say this isn't a real T any more but the guys warning about ruining their engines because they drive them over 25MPH should take a close look at this cars history.
It's no Trailer Queen you can bet on that. Garrett drives this car daily during the 500 off season as well.
I thought Rube Goldberg was dead........
Dan B, flat tube.
Tom, I agree in that, for me (perhaps many of us), one of the truely fun parts of driving a T is being able to be "at one" with it and learn what it likes and what adjustments it favors in different moments.
I also find the MT 500 is predominantly a stock T fenomenon. Gauges don't modify a T so much as they let you glean data about what the T is doing and what effect your changes are having on it. Sorta speeds up the learning curve.
All those gauges reminds me of after the war when aircraft altimeters were cheap and every one had one on top of their dash. Little did they know of the radium dials which were attacking their private parts ;=)
We still use them in our old aircraft; but the overhaul shops won't touch them if they have yellow dials.
You didn't need aircraft parts. Everyday wrist and pocket watches, bedside and table clocks were loaded with it.
The glow is probably gone by now but the radiation isn't.