I worked on this car this week. The owner whom has owned it since the 50's says its a 22 non starter car. As I crawled all over it things didnt add up, and the car puzzled me. First the car has a iron non starter hogshead, no provision for starter at all. The block is a non generator block. The wheels are square fellow non demountable. The steering wheel is cast with a wood rim, Installed upside down! round gas tank. no dash. I dont think the car has ever been changed in the time he has owned it, other than incorrect finishes. I need to check the engine number when I get a chance, should I look anywhere else for numbers. Or any other features to look for.
He never had a title as Mass didnt have require it in the 1950s, he also never registered the car because he had a shop and repair plates that he just popped on his old cars from day to day. I think that it may be good news that it could be an 18 or early 19? Would it be considered more valuable?
What is the serial number on the motor?
First, if you could post higher resolution photos folks will be able to see more details which will help you date the different parts of the car. It shows to be a 79kb or so photo on my computer so you could easily double the resolution to 148kb and still be well under the 195 kb limit for photos.
You could also zoom in on areas and post only the front 1/4 etc.
Note it has a 1915-mid 1917 equal length windshield hinges. Those are easy to swap out so they may or may not have been originally on the car.
It has the top rest coming down from the rear seat rather than through the rear panel. Typically a 1920 or earlier body – but – there could have been some later ones assembled onto a chassis or the body may have been swapped out at one time or another.
Front spring/engine mount is the earlier style with two u-bolts – that was discontinued in early 1921 ref: page 324 of Bruce McCalley’s book.
It has the crank used 1914-mid 1922 ref page 324 of Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford.”
It has the under axle wishbone that was introduced in 1919. ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/F-H.htm#fr1
It has the fluted headlamp lens introduced around Jun 1921 but are commonly installed by owners on earlier electric lamps if the car was driven much at night.
Transmission cover is before Approximately Mar 15, 1919 ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm that says:
MAR 15 Acc. 575, Box 11, #726, Ford Archives
Starter-type transmission cover used on all cars.
Engine block prior to approximately Apr 1919 ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm again that says:
APR 18 Acc. 575, Box 11, #729, Ford Archives
T-400D (starter type) cylinder specified for all cars.
There may be a body number and if so a possible date for the body. If so it would likely be located on the right front floorboard riser. Please see the posting “Home for the Holidays” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html for additional details on what and where to look.
Black era cars are very similar in price for the same condition car. More important than if it is a 1918 or 1920 would be the condition of the car. I.e. good runner or needs work etc. Yes, the older car in general is a little more valuable – but not substantially when we are talking 1917-1925 and only one or two years apart. And lots of us would prefer a 1919 or later with a starter to a 1918 without the starter etc. But that is preference.
Nice looking T.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Thanks hap, gonna get the numbers in the morning, and will check it over real close. The owner expressed interest in selling and I told him I would help him get it in shape, just want to make sure the car gets fairly represented for all parties. It runs ok, but will need a extensive going through to be able to be truthful about condition. The body is super straight, paint is old, top is great but a bit faded, complete side curtains, also faded. Need to check out axles and trans and some other things. Will also get better pics. I love seeing more t's that havent been out in a long time, this one just seemed more interesting than others!
Does it have forged or stamped running board brackets?
A quick thing to check would be the frame. Does it have the cast running board brackets or the later U shaped channel brackets that extend across the frame. That change took place about 1920. The cast spider wheel is 1919 or earlier. The round gas tank changed to oval in 1920. All the other parts you listed could have been used on both 1922 or earlier. There are some differences in the rear panel of the body. Also the "H" headlight lenses are correct for 22 on; clear (or green eyebrow) were used before that. If it is a 19 or earlier the light switch would be on the steering column in combination with the horn button. A lot of these parts could have been changed over the years. I would start with checking the frame, engine serial number and rear quarters of the body.
It has cast running board brackets. With numbers I thing I could be at least confident to narrow dont what the car best represents year of build wise, I really do appreciate the help.
I've had two 21's, and they both had forged running board brackets, not the U-shaped stamped ones.
Does the frame have holes in it for a battery carrier?
Also check the rear of the frame. If it is a '19 or later, it should have six holes drilled for the spare tire carrier whether it has demountables or not. There should also be a rain gutter on top of the firewall under the hood for '19 or later. Does the rear axle have the high or low fill plug.
1922's have the top saddle rods coming out of the body.
3 pc vs 5 pc back body panels.
Wow, didnt think there was this much to dating a car! At least I know my speedster is a mutt and Im cool with that and will tell anyone who asks what year it is. The answer, lots of years! I will make up a check list check all numbers and features and compare them to all of this info. I think it should be conclusive! Thanks guys. There will be a good chance it ends up on the classifieds, and dont want to mislead another model t'er