I am tired of paying almost $20. for Each Champion 25 Spark Plug for my Model T. I found a Spark Plug for only $2.99 per plug. The only problem is that it almost falls into the cylinder head. Is there a screw in adapter available for the Model T head that I can use so the new plugs don't fall into the engine? The plug on the right of the photo is the $2.99 one.
Mark, buy Autolite or motocraft plugs they are 3-5 bucks a piece. They are 1/2" pipe thread and work as good as the A-25 plugs.
The suppliers carry an adapter that allows you to use 14mm plugs in the 1/2" pipe thread holes. The problem is getting a spark plug with a long enough body & electrode to even begin to reach the combustion chamber. Your $2.99 plug won't even come close. Also, there's more to a spark plug than the price. Modern plugs with the wrong heat range don't work well at all. When you get your adapters, check back here for a recommendation on plugs of the proper length & heat range.
Mark, you need to use 1/2" pipe thread plugs. Those shown on the right do not fit in a T head.
As far as cost goes, how often do you change plugs. I have some cars that I have not changed the plugs in over 10 years and they run fine. That comes to darn cheap per year.
I echo what Willie said. If your plugs get blackened with a carbon substance, you've got a fuel mixture problem. If they get oil soaked, you've got a oil control problem. Unless you drive your T as a daily driver, plugs should be the least of your problems.
F-11s are cheap too. Or I have some A-25s I could be talked out of, free to good home.
I've used the same four mismatched, 20's era, used spark plugs for the last 20 years with no trouble.
I run Bosch 4302 (discontinued) with adapters I made myself. Haven't fouled a plug in 10 years and neither has my buddy running them in his hack. I think the replacement number is 4003. These are fine wire platinum and cheap.
A bit of thread drift, but how long do the new Champion X plugs last in a Model T? I don't mind paying the premium price as long as I get a long life out of them. Mine have about 1000 miles on them and seem to be holding up fine so far.
Why pay $20 to $30 for new X when you can get used ones on eBay for $10 or less, and at swap meets for $2 to $7? They work fine for me.
Ditto what Steve said.
If it was April first I would almost think Mark was pulling our leg. Come on now , a lawn mower plug in a T . ???? Steve Jelf, I buy my plugs the same place as you do ...
So many great period correct vintage T plugs available at good prices, I won't buy new X plugs because I just don't need to. I also do not like the lack of copper gasketing (only one copper ring) in the new manufactured X plugs, resulting in the steel shoulder bearing down on the porcelain.
I buy F11 plugs right from my local Ford dealer. They work well for me.
I've seen a guy go through ten of those $2.99 plugs on a 100 mile drive. He was saving lots of money he said!
All the plugs in the box below cost me less than $5 each. Some are brand new in the original boxes. By watching swap meets and eBay you can get a good set of Champion X plugs that will last until eternity for very little money.
I have completely worn out a set of tires on Bosch platinum plugs without a hick up. If you witnessed ten plugs in a hundred miles then he had other issues that weren't the fault of the plug.
Keep your eyes open. They're out there.
To illustrate what I said above, an X just sold on eBay for $7.
Steve or anyone. Do you know where to find any packing washers,?? I salvage all I can but it would be nice to have some new ones ...
I got these copper crush gaskets from Genuine Aircraft Hardware company in Paso Robles. OD 3/4", ID 1/2". I haven't driven a lot of miles on them, but so far so good.
Is there a way to know if an old Champion X plug is good and not fowled? Do they still manufacture the old style X? I have four really old ones in one of my engines. PS Donnie Brown, you are right.
I wouldn't used the adapters either. There are a lot of plugs out there [ X ] and others, use what they used in the day...JD
Mark, the plugs in your picture are the latest form of X, which has remained pretty much unchanged from the mid-twenties until today. It's what you buy new today if you want to spend the big bucks. It has a terminal with 8-32 threads attached to the crimped-on brass cap. The center electrode can't be removed from the insulator, but the insulator can be removed from the base for cleaning. On the left in my first picture is the earlier X used in the teens. Its electrode has 5-40 threads, and can be removed from the insulator. The center plug is transitional, from the early twenties. It's identical to the earlier X but has ribs on the porcelain like the later plugs.
How you know if a plug is fouled is by looking at it. If it's dirty you take it apart and clean it. That's why they come apart. One caution: don't clean the insulator with anything that will damage the smooth surface of the porcelain.
You can polish up the brass to look real pretty.
If you use a modern plug with the adapter, make sure they are non resister type if you are running coils and magneto. The resister type are too much load for the coils. I had a number of resister type fail when not very old, better the plug then the coils.
Thanks Steve, Ill check them out. The insulators in the pic above have hairline cracks. The one in the center is the worst. Sometimes they do not go all the way thru the porcelain and will cause no problems, and sometimes they are all the way thru. If the crack fills with carbon, it will short to ground and not work. The spark will take the path of least resistance, and sometimes that is the hairline crack ... The 2 on the right still have a nice polished porcelain surface. That is what they should look like. The one on the left may clean up but it may have been cleaned by blasting it with one of those spark plug cleaners. If the surface of the porcelain looks like the wide rib around the plug (where the hairline cracks are)and is still a rough surface after cleaning, then the plug will not last very long. The area of the plug exposed to the combustion chamber should be as smooth as possible to prevent carbon fouling by soot and oil. You may already know that, but just in case a newbie plug restorer is reading this, it may help with the restoration of their plugs
Another thing not mentioned here is about setting the electrode ground. They should always run downhill away from the center electrode. That way if a drop of oil was to form on the ground electrode it will run to the outside away from the center electrode. Some of the pics above show almost a "U" shape to the ground electrode. In my opinion that is a good shape to have. But you always need to make sure it is not sloping downhill toward the center electrode when setting the gap. If a drop was to form on an electrode sloping toward the center, the drop of oil can run down to the center and bridge the gap. It can make for hard starting as the drop does not always blow away easily.
Yep, these may very well be the same ones that went to pieces when I used them. I had two or three do that.
I am surprised nobody mentioned putting broken porcelain back together with JB weld I too have used the same set of Champion X plugs for so many years I can't remember when they were ever purchased. The T just keep humming along. It don't seem to be broke so I ain't fixing it.
John, Have you used JB Weld for broken plugs, or are you poking fun at JB Weld users.??? I have used JB Weld for about everything but spark plugs ... If it will not conduct electricity it should work, ?????
John, After thinking about it, I feel you were poking fun at us JB Weld users, My feelings have been hurt. Most of us JB users have sensitive feelings. It will probably take days of counseling and group meetings to come to terms with the issue. I have noticed I have already started using food as a crutch. (I had 2 cinnamon rolls this morning instead of 1). This may affect the JB Weld community for years. !!!.... PS: where do I get those little yellow smiley faces .??
Just type a colon and a right parenthesis in sequence and a smiley face will appear in your post.
If you use a left parenthesis instead, a frowny face will appear:
Donnie, a : and a ) together makes a
Ran when parked, the plugs still in the motor of my 26 Fordor project we're take apart Champion 26 plugs. They had "Made in Canada" on them, so I soaked them in CLR and then polished them up, filed square edges onto the electrode and contact, adjusted then to the correct gap and re installed them.
After correcting a few other problems (carb related) the motor starts right up and runs smooth as can be. Even starts on one quarter turn of the crank by hand until I figured out the starter was not adequately grounded (paint).
So I guess my plugs were even less expensive than most mentioned above, essentially free! And I can brag about truly authentic plugs.
thanks for the info A colon and parenthesis looks like smiley face on his side .... learn something new every day. That helps with my JB Weld trauma ....
You can put me in the "purist" group if you want, but I use Champion X's. They work great every time, so I see no reason to change. I've tried a few others (not all), but almost none worked as well as the X's. The only ones I tried which did work as well were a set of NOS Edison #14's I tried one time, and they worked every bit as well as the X's. I sold those to Bob Jablonski, who put them into Edison's car in a museum in NJ. Then I went back to X's and haven't looked back. I have paid O'Reilly's price for some of them, but as others have said, that's not necessary if you have the time to shop around some.
One thing to check for, especially on new ones, is the threads. Some are made with flat surfaces where they should have sharp edges on the threads, and that lets air pass by under compression. If you see bubbles at the threads while your engine is running, that may well be the problem. You can see the flat on the threads if you look for it.
If you get some like that from O'Reilly's or elsewhere, send those back and tell them to get you some good ones. It may take a couple of times until you get a good full set.
When I got the '27 Tudor it had Motorcraft plugs in it........and ran like crap.
I put NOS X plugs in it and that was that.
I have never had any luck at all with any kind of an Autolite plug and the new AC plugs aren't worth the box they come in which forced this former AC user to switch to Champions (of all flavors) out of desperation because I had tried all the other makes with bad results.