I'm an engineering student and I recently picked up a 1913 T engine for $120.
It was entirely an impulse buy, and my first T engine. The engine is number 253534, which I believe means it was made April-May of 1913.
The head has quite a large crack, so I'm guessing that's pretty worthless. The previous owner was selling because it won't crank- it seems to be either seized or the pistons rusted to the walls of the cylinders. He says that it came from a farm in Montana.
Does anybody have any suggestions as to a course of action? I am considering parting it out but I figured that I would ask here first. I definitely do not have the funds for a full rebuild.
Is there anything I should look for that is specific to 1913?
Michael, $120 for that!!!
You know your conscience will not allow you to sleep at night. LOL
The pan does not seem to have the teacup oil drain, so it may be a little later than 1913.
At the back of the head you will see a lip which extends to the rear a bit. Does the block have the same lip, or does it taper all the way down the water jacket. The blocks with the lip are earlier and that makes them more valuable.
You certainly have done well.
Allan from down under.
The hogs head should also be aluminum, but likely changed through the years, great find. You will make you 120 bucks back and most likely more
Michael.. Nice Find. Contact Larry Smith by doing a search of this forum. He lives in California and might be interested.
By the way, the hogs head is correct. It is just cruddy and stained so you can't tell it's aluminum. But I can see the reinforcing ribs next to the bolt holes. Looks like your pan does have the teacup too so it's correct also.
I'd buy it from you myself if I were on the West coast.
nice buy! You need to tear it down and fix it, including the mag. Not hard to do and worth it for a 1913. Good Luck---Paul
Don't take the first offer for it. Early parts are a good investment, so I wouldn't sell it until I needed money for a better investment.
Perspective: a 1913 T with a 1913 engine is worth $thousands more than one with a later engine.
It may be a good one or a boat anchor…if it doesn't crank over, who knows what is damaged inside. If a broken crank took out the webbing, thats an expensive fix to do correctly. Did water get inside and crack the block? It will need to be taken apart to assess the internal condition.
Michael, I sent you a private email.
I will bet that the engine is still good! Pull the head and fill the cylinders with kerosene or mineral spirits and let it set for a while. It can eventually be freed up with a little coaxing. I have freed up engines that the head was off for many years in the open. It can be done! Take the pan off of it and check it out to see if something is broken. If not its good to free up.
The head can be repaired also. Don't throw it away!
Good luck! And lucky you!
It's a great find. It appears to me to have the tea cup pan and the lip at the back of the block. Correct pedals, inspection plate and trans cover. You can find another head later, but for now I would pull the spark plugs, fill the cylinders with oil, replace the plugs and put the whole thing in a corner. You did well my boy.
You have a great start for a '13 speedster.
What do you think Tom?
Do not throw the head away. It can be fixed. If it is original to the engine the head may have casting dates that are important to someone Nice find. Anything pre 15 is always worth more.
Thanks for all the advice!
I'm definitely not planning on throwing anything away. I guess the plan for now is to pull the pan to check the internals, then pull the plugs and try to free it.
Michael -- If you're going to put some "stuff" in the cylinders to try to free the pistons, the best stuff you can use is a 50:50 mixture of acetone and ATF. Let it sit in there for quite a while, and it will do magic. I once used it on a T engine (cast iron block and pistons) which had sat outside for years with no cylinder head. I filled the cylinders with the magic elixir and left it for a few months. I was able to disconnect the rods from the crankshaft and drive the pistons out using a block of wood and a hammer.
Thank you for the advice. I only have 3 months over the summer, hopefully that is enough time for the cylinders to soak.
I can't add anything to the discussion that hasn't already been said, but I will say NICE SCORE!
That should do it, since your engine has had a head on it. The one I treated had sat outside in the weather for years with no head. The cylinders were full of water. What a mess! Here it is with the water removed:
Fortunately, it was still oily underneath, so the bottom end was good.
Here it is with pistons out:
Hmmmmmm.... The system wouldn't let me post any more pics on that message, so I'll continue it here.
Bored and decked, with new pistons and valves:
Here it is ready to go into the chassis:
So there IS hope for rusty engines.
You did one helluva job there Mike.
You can load more pix, Mike. It just won't show more than 3 in the preview.
Hi, Ralph -- I've never had any trouble loading bunches of pics before. Don't know what happened today.
Michael, Engine #253534 is listed as being produced april 21, 1913. They made 906 engines that day, from #253244 to #254149. Ten years later they typically made 6,500 engines (and cars) per day.
As an engineering student you may have interest in reading the 1915 book Ford Methods and Ford shops by H.L. Arnold and F.L. Faurote going in detail about Fords production methods in 1914.
It's available as a reprint (be aware of varying copy quality) or can be read at google books in some countries, (not mine though)