Exhaust Pipe Heat - A Safety Issue

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Exhaust Pipe Heat - A Safety Issue
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 10:42 am:

Hi Everyone,
I am raising this question because of some heat damage I have observed from exhaust pipe heat on my 1914 runabout.
First, some floorboard burning:

Second, some melting on gas line wrapping (I have since moved the gas line a little further away):

I will show the third picture in a second post below.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 10:49 am:

Here is a picture of some melted wrapping on an electrical line:

My question is regarding doing something about this safety issue. While we might be inclined to think is not important, I don't like it much. That being the case, I wonder how many of you may have similar situations with your own T that you are unaware of.
The question then is what to do about it. My thought is to wrap the exhaust pipe with insulation of some sort. But what to use...?
Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.
Thanks,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:00 am:

Before it was a safety thing for me it was just the high heat of the floorboards and the cooking of are feet. I wrapped my exhaust from the manifold to the muffler with the high cost wrap and racing insulation that dirt track drivers use under the floorboards to keep the heat off the floor. I also use camping mats cut to shape under the floor mat. My wife and I now ride very comfortable even on hot days. It only took a couple of hours to do the whole job and back then cost around $150.00. Well worth every penny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:01 am:

My T has it's original floor boards and I can see evidence where the center board has been on fire in the past. It was probably caused by the board falling out of place onto the exhaust pipe and being driven that way. I don't think it will happen with the boards properly installed. Better a little heat damage than doing some incorrect mod to the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:05 am:

The previous owner of my 1924 touring / pickup wrapped the first 3 feet of my exhaust pipe with header wrap, it helps somewhat.

Here is a link to one source for header wrap:

http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/exhaust/section/heat-protection/pa rt-type/exhaust-wrap/?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Default&autoview=ProductName&keyw ord=Header%20Wrap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:05 am:

I wrapped the exhaust pipe on my 1919 with grey/black headed wrap from Autozone.
It used to be part # 11152 -15 Ft for $14.95

I started at the manifold nut and covered it back to almost the under seat gas tank.
I also made sure the gas line ran perpendicular to the exhaust pipe with as much clearance as possible where it crossed so it had the least opportunity to absorb heat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:09 am:

I run the fuel line along the frame channel. It crosses straight above the exhaust pipe perpendicular the exhaust pipe and above the pipe then bends to run along the frame rail and behind the wood block at the engine mount. I will show pictures.
At sediment bulb

Along frame

I will post again to show another picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:13 am:

I don't have any electrical wiring on that side of the chassis. All wires are on the opposite side.

Perhaps your exhaust pipe is not bent right and is too close to the floorboards.
Norm
At clamp


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:14 am:

My TT has a crude home made floor board that is just a flat floor with nothing going up to the firewall, meaning the rear of the engine, the rear of the exhaust manifold and the upper part of the exhaust pipe are exposed to the inside of the cab. Heat is an issue, but since there are no doors or roof, as long as you're moving it's OK.

When I was 7 or 8 years old I was curious just how hot the thing got. One day after it had been running I put my finger on the pipe to see. Let's just say that I found out and never did that again!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:14 am:

Jon. Seeing as it is a safety issue and you have presented evidence that there may be a real danger, I don't think it would compromise the integrity of the original Model T design for you to go to a welding supply shop and purchase a welding blanket and cut it to size and fasten (nail or staple) it to the underside of your floor. It will spread out and reflect the heat so it is not concentrated in one place. You can also go to www.mcmaster.com and type welding blanket into the search box which will bring up all types and sizes of heat resistant to heat proof heat blanket to use as insulation. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:15 am:

Retarded timing will result in excess heat in the exhaust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:22 am:

I just checked the Autozone site.
The header wrap can be ordered - part #11152 -15 Ft still $14.95


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:29 am:

Ricks is right; any imbalance in the carb mixture or in late timing will cause the pipe and manifold to heat excessively. The manifold and upper end of the pipe can actually glow red when this happens. Certainly the pipe gets hot, even in a properly adjusted engine, but check it out before taking any steps to insulate anything. It won't hurt to do so but it may not be necessary. Besides, re-setting anything that's off will give you a better running engine, better, mileage, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:47 am:

Remember! Its a proven fact that each time wood is heated and cooled the flash point of fire lowers a little. Think how many times that might happen on T floor boards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 11:54 am:

How about someone posting photos of the Ford recommended gas and exhaust pipe routing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Saitta on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 12:18 pm:

We were on a tour and Judy smelled smoke. No problem says Bill. Judy said it was getting stronger. When flames broke thru the floor mat Bill listened. The floorboard had fallen down against the exhaust. We put it out with the fire extinguisher and drove on. Carry one!!!!!! We got home and Bill fixed the floor boards so that would not happen again. How are your floorboards?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 12:33 pm:

LOL!! I imagine Judy had some choice words for Bill during and after that little event . . . and Bill probably didn't have much of a leg to stand on.

Rather infamous in my family are the words "I got it under control." My dad was grilling some steaks, but also coming inside occasionally to check the progress of a college basketball game. My mom noticed he'd be inside for a bit and said "Hey, you might should check on the steak." to which he responded "Who's grilling the steak? I've got it under control." and she said "Okay Mr. 'under control'." Hilarity ensued when moments later my mom watched as flames 3-4 feet high shot up from the grill and my dad bolted outside. We ate pizza that night (instead of charcoal masquerading as steak). We now say things like "Who's doing this?" or "I've got it allllllllllll under control." as a way to say "Don't monitor me" while simultaneously accepting that if something happens the culprit lacking attention will be ridiculed without mercy. =)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 01:51 pm:

I put heat shields on my 26 coupe as the boards are closer to the tailpipe than on my 24,18ga sheet steel some thick washer and screw it to the board.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 02:36 pm:

Here are a couple of old posts

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/144746.html?1276659629

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/358853.html?1367371429


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 02:39 pm:

This is what I did with my touring

Thin sheet aluminum with a couple washers under to space from the wood to create an air gap.





Don't have a picture of the charcoal part of my floorboard!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:04 pm:

I guess the evidence is conclusive enough that there is good reason to do something about exhaust heat. I guess you could put insulation on things around the exhaust pipe as some have done. The second alternative is to put something around the exhaust pipe itself.
I guess I will try the second alternative and try to wrap it from the exhaust manifold to muffler. That seems to be the best way to solve several potential problems all at once.
Thanks for all of the input, but don't hesitate to add more!
Regards,
jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:21 pm:

Cool Engine - Hot Feet?

An idea for your consideration is to get a piece of the flex alum dryer ducting and cut it so it'll fit over the pipe. You can easily form it to the contour of the pipe. This acts as a barrier to funnel the heat out the back and away from the floorboards and your wife's feet.

I also wrapped my pipe with header tape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:28 pm:

On the topic of wrapping the exhaust: is holding the heat in (by insulating) going to cause some other problem?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:34 pm:

A little off topic My 16 black smith built roadster pick up has a burned spot on the outside of the tail gate where it was to close to the tail pipe with the tail gate down. What's interesting is it has a matching burned spot on the inside of the same gate before it was turned around. It will be fun to tell the average folks why!
A two dollar baking pan from Good will with the ends sniped out letting air pass through will be used on my 16 in possible hot spots


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Wicker on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 03:49 pm:

One of my T's shows fire damage to the drivers side body wood. you can trace it to the darkest area....Started at floor board over eahaust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:09 pm:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:13 pm:

Sorry for the duplication.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 05:42 pm:

Speedy Bill's Co. has the stuff we use to wrap the pipe with.

We get a big roll, and it covers the whole pipe.

I over lap about 1/3rd, and nail it down with 3 hose clamps.

It works good. No more hot feet, and high Temp. inside the coupe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 08:05 pm:

Jon, two of your heat affected items were plastic stuff which doesn't have to be there in the first place. I have found that routing the fuel line in the correct way has never been a problem in any of my Ts. Even when we have runs of 100+ degree days I have never had vapour lock and consequently the need to insulate the fuel line.

The only wiring on the right side of any of my cars is to the brake light switch [RHD] and that is easily routed well away from the exhaust.

Heat from the exhaust pipe does make riding in a T less pleasurable on those 100 degree days. I am yet to experience such in my 'new' LHD tudor Wrapping the pipe is made much more difficult on RHD cars as the pipe gets really close to the reverse pedal shaft and the frame in places. I have yet to fit any heat shielding.

Just a different opinion.

Allan from down under.


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