03:30 AM 6 April 2014. Three men threw two cinder blocks through my glass door and were in my home taking everything of value as fast as they could. Not good for them... I sleep with a.45 next to my bed. When they saw my pistol, they tried to get through a glass door with a push bar mid way up the door. I could have shot all three as they were struggling to get through the door at the same time. Their backs were me and you can't shoot them in the back. Damn Loveland, Colorado
1. Everybody in your family is OK?
2. Were they apprehended?
3. Did you lose much stuff?
I think I would have said, "Gobble gobble" to see if I could make them turn so it wouldn't be a back shot.
Glad you are alright and you were able to stop them. Texas allows deadly force in protection of property. Are you sure you wouldn't have been likewise justified? -unlawful entry to your habitation, committing additional crime of burglary, reasonable fear for your life?
Anyhow sorry this happened to you.
You did the right thing, let them go when they ran. But you were prepared if they didnít run. Good judgement!!
Your a better man than me.... I found one snooping around my garage one morning at 3am this was about 20 years ago, I didn't ask any questions I let my 12ga do all the talking ! My garage was about 30 yards form the house and had already been broken into 3-4 months earlier the #7 bird shot peppered him down just fine. A lot of yelling and screaming happened just after firing the first shot, after he made it to his car he might have had 2 gears left out of 4 when he got it rolling the throttle was wide open lights off evidently he didn't or couldn't push in the clutch ? But needless to say he was doing some serious gear grinding... I never seen him back around the house or garage after that. I love it when the plan comes together !
You should have at least emptied your 45 into the grass. That way they would have known you meant business!!!
I live in New York, where the gun laws are a little different than in places like... oh, say, Texas. Here, if an intruder breaks into your home, you're supposed to take out your gun, hand it to the intruder, explain it's operation and limitations (in whichever language he happens to speak), stand back and let him shoot you. Following the rules pretty much guarantees you won't be prosecuted.
Anyway... I'm glad you and your family didn't get hurt.
When I was about twelve, my social studies teacher told us that we had an agreement with society. Society would protect us from people that would do us harm, and we would not take the law into our own hands.
I don't think society has held up its end of the bargain.
I'll shut up now.
Drive carefully, and enjoy (if you can), W2
Daniel, if there is a next time, shoot them in the back of their knees. At least that will slow them down. Glad you are OK. Dave
The Back of the Knees got my vote!
In NC just being in your house without permission is grounds for getting shot, friend or foe, front or back, no matter.
A simple pull of the trigger can change your life and not always for the better. There is always a time for action and a time for discretion. Your discretion may have saved you much more than anything that may have been taken.
In Larimer County Colorado we have no faith in our Justice System. Larimer County is the best place to be a criminal. Criminals get the best deal here. Daniel J. Kaup is our Judge here. When I got robbed of all of my tools and eqipment by Robert W. Johnson of Loveland, Colorado, Judge Kaup ordered restitution of $29,000.00. Johnson took the money from selling my tools and bought a nice couch and TV. He has sat at home for seven years now watchng TV. I have begged Kaup to so something for six and a half years. Johnson is home watching TV and I am screwed.
Good Judgement it also helps to be mindful of all the laws in your location because they are all different! My dad was a State Trooper and taught us how to shoot from about the age of 7 or 8 and we knew not to touch a firearm without his permission, His quote "more people are killed with unloaded firearms than any other kind so ours are always loaded". My brother was home sick one day when someone broke into our house (1964) and started coming upstairs My brother took one shot hitting the intruder in the torso and dad had one heleva time trying to tell him he wasn't in trouble. Glad you and yours are ok!
Unless you've been faced with such a situation, it's easy to tell someone else to pull the trigger. What have you got in your house that's worth taking a life? Unless the person is posing a serious threat to you or a member of your family, you leave yourself open to a lot of legal and personal anxiety and aggravation. Taking a life is hard, living with the fact you took a life is hard too. Daniel, you made a wise and humane decision. They had their back to you and shooting them while they're fleeing is the wrong thing to do, however, if they turn and face you, they pose a threat. Aim for center mass. Also every situation is tempered with logic and conscience.
I'm with Fred. I do believe in Ohio if you feel threatened, you have the right to protect your property. Bricks through glass and entry by three thugs constitutes a life threatening situation in my opinion. Especially since they weren't invited. I'm just a short reach from protection, plus the dog has supersonic hearing so I'll get some advance warning.
I'm glad you weren't harmed.
I'd fire off a leg shot while dialing 911
Daniel... Glad you are physically OK. I left the state of Maryland 9 years ago, because that communist state has a "Duty to retreat" clause. That says that if anyone breaks in, the owner has a duty to try and escape and turn over their property to the invader. Deadly force is only justified if there is no route of escape. BS. I now live in West Virginia which is a different place all together. Here, we have the Castle Doctrine which gives me the right to protect self and property.
Nevertheless, you made the right choice though. Deadly force is required when your life is in danger. The second those guys did an about face, the threat diminished. Good call.
Twice in the past year our quiet town of five thousand has had one shot dead and the other shot in the fanny with a shot gun.
The one shot dead was across the street from the police station who had a restraining order from his ex bride living with her daughter. He broke in the front door then broke in the bedroom door both locked.
The one shot with the shot gun walked into a near by watering hole with a jar of change bought an eight dollar pack of smokes told the bar tender to keep the change. The bar tender called the police when there was three hundred dollars in change. He was caught a few blocks away in a vacation home he had broken into and taken to jail. The next day he was released and went back to the same home. I will skip the end of the story but both men shot were over thirty, both were not working and both had drug problems.
I need to move out of New York and back to America.
Mike. What is in my house that is worth taking a life? The lives of me, my wife and my son. There have been many cases where an intruder has killed an entire family without a care to eliminate any possible witnesses. Thank goodness, here in Florida we have the castle law which allows the homeowner to shoot an intruder if the homeowner feels threatened.
If someone is in my home he WILL be shot and I will shoot to kill, without warning, thus solving any possible future legal problems created by any survivors. In situations like that there are no fair or honorable rules to go by such as waiting for him to turn around so as not to shoot him in the back. Whichever side of the bad guy is to me is the side he will be shot through. The fact he is in my house without my consent is enough explanation for me. I will not give him the chance to wheel around and shoot me with a concealed weapon and then have his way with my wife and son before shooting them. Jim
The problem is, the bold meth head thieves always come back for a second helping. It is a fine, ugly line to walk regarding putting a human down, just being inside your house is not reason enough in some states,especial if it can be proved they were running away, and you could go down for manslaughter or worse. I tend to like the Texas solution myself.
Just so you don't get lost when you move - remember that Illinois, California, and a few other places are also not part of America.
In my experience, thieves will return again and again until somebody stops them so while I agree you must do whatever you think best - you aren't doing anyone in society a favor when you simply watch them take your stuff. They will return for more.
Jesse James never returned to Northfield.
NH is a right to carry state and it is easy to get a license to carry concealed.
I am comfortable when out shopping because I know that there are armed citizens to protect me if some idiot from Massachusetts or Vermont decides to do something stupid.
I believe it makes the crooks think twice before doing something here because they don't know who might be packing.
Here's my favorite "security sign"...I literally have these posted all around my place. Mostly for the humor, but in all seriousness, I feel it is fair warning for intruders.
First Daniel, I would like to say I think you did right by not pulling the trigger and shooting someone in the back. But me being a Cop for a short period in my life, I would have fired one warning shot and at least tried to comprehend them on their stomach until the police got there. At least that is what I did when two broke into my house about four in the morning. I kept a 45 pointed at their face and kept telling them I should blow their @##*##@ head off while my wife with the kids in the bedroom called the cops. But with two kids and my wife in the house I didn't want them to experiance the sound of a 45 shot in the living room much less the mess it makes when someone is shot. I've been there, and seen that. It is hard for some who owns a gun to actually pull the trigger and some of the ones who did, now have problems dealing with their decision even if they were right to do so.
This is a split second decision, and one you will think about and question your actions for many years to come.
I have fired weapons abroad, and here, I don't think anyone has died from any of my actions but the difference in abroad and here is, here it can financialiy ruin your life if the split second decision turns out to be the wrong one.
Most attorneys seem to never settle a case until they have exhausted the last penny they can suck out of you and your entire family.
Just saying, a permit to carry doesn't give you a license to use it. So when you make that choice get ready, your life will change in so many ways in the world we live in today.
With the laws we have today, I would have never made it outof high school with all the fist fights I was in, knife fights, I was stabbed in the rest room twice etc.....all I am saying be sure you do the right thing and don't try to re-enact what you see on tv shows....
Good job Daniel......you or no family member was hurt, and that is the most important ...Chet
Jim, did you read what I wrote? It doesn't seem that you did. I said " unless a person is posing a serious threat to you or a member of your family". In no way did I say you shouldn't protect yourself. I also said Daniel made the right choice. It was wise and humane. But if those three would have turned around he should aim for center mass. The key is whether or not they pose a threat. Christ I'm not saying you shouldn't protect yourself. But if it comes down to my flat screen tv or my life I'm gonna get the hell out of there. I've had to shoot people. Albeit under different circumstances but I carry that with me. And under certain circumstances I'd kill again to protect myself or my family. When those idiots threw the cinder block through the glass and entered the house Daniel would be justified in blowing their shit away. But if he could obviously see they were getting out because of a serious threat to "their" well-being it would have been wrong to shoot them. And something else, if you simply "wing shoot" them in the back of the knee or somehow think your doing something right to slow them down, you are wrong. All your doing is setting yourself up for a long legal hassle. If you've committed to pull the trigger then do a proper job of it. Dead men tell no tales!
I understand Mike and I agree with what you wrote. I was merely answering your fist question as to "What's in your house worth taking a life". Had you not posed that question, I would not have even posted. Jim Patrick
I'm with RV and John. I look around me and can't seem to find America anymoreónot in my neck of the woods, anyway.
Between the ruinous taxes (I hand Uncle Sam the price of a new car every single year and I'm just a retired nobody who hasn't been able to afford a new car in over a dozen years), criminal-friendly environment (I've been mugged, stabbed, my house has been burglarized and we lost a couple of cars to thieves) and being the #1 terrorist target on the continent (we could smell the odor of burnt flesh coming from Ground Zero for over a week), I really gotta get out of New York.
Daniel,so sorry to hear this happened. Only serves to make you feel vulnerable and loss faith in the goodness of mankind. We had a vacation end short for the very reason.
Though you do have the right to protect yourself and have the right to shoot (and I support that), its no doubt better for you legally you did not shoot. The way the courts are today and especially in liberial states like colorado, the bad guy no doubt could have sued you because he can no longer work to support his family. That's how perverted our world has gotten.
Around here the cops will tell you, that if and when you have to protect yourself and have to use a fire arm, the best thing is to shoot once and shoot to kill. If you have to shot twice, make sure they have a gun. You NEVER shoot to wound.
Last night on the news, they showed a map of the locations of resent school shooting. Interesting now the majority of them were in states with liberial states with strict "gun control" laws. I also find it interesting the link of mental illness has had to these horrible crimes yet the blame is always placed at the feet of guns. More interesting is several of these school attacks have been stabbings yet there are no "knife control" laws.
More than my 2 cents. Take care buddy. Glad you and your family are ok. I'm sure you will never see those three again.
Thank you Chester, I'm so lousy at explaining myself but you pretty much said it like I wanted too. There's something else that people have to be aware of, and in my opinion it's not fair but, if you setup waiting for someone to break into your house and you shoot them you're going to have a problem. Especially if you're setting up to catch them and shoot them if they come back for a second visit. And I'll apologize to law enforcement up front before I say this but the purpose of law enforcement is to serve and protect and if you take on their job and purposely trap someone with the purpose of shooting them, you can be facing premeditated circumstances. As spread thin in this country as law enforcement is it's still frowned upon to entrap someone for the purpose of causing them harm. They have laws like that to avoid a vigilante state.
Jim, I apologize if I flew off the handle. This subject hits a very personal nerve for me. I have a permit to carry. I don't have it to show-off what a badass I am. I don't have it so my gun is available for target shooting when the opportunity presents itself. I purposely carry for my protection. As a matter of fact I've never had anyone recognize that I'm carrying because I carry concealed. But rest assured I carry. I get a little disappointed when I see signs that say "No weapons allowed on these premises" or some iteration of it. But I also understand the purpose for the signs and alway respect the rights of others to say it. And that brings up another thought, how did that dumbass Marine possibly think he'd be alright taking guns into Mexico. I don't buy the excuse he couldn't turn around. Honestly, if it had been me I'd have made sure I never crossed the border. I would have stopped in the middle of the road and taken my chances with American law enforcement.
The policy at my house:
You don't always need to personally own a gun to stay safe:
My next door neighbor, who builds race engines, was awakened one night by his dog barking. He got up, looked out the window, and saw the dome light on in his pickup and two guys in it. He slipped his .38 out of the nightstand, slid out the kitchen door, and over to the truck's open driver side window where he put the muzzle up to the guy's head. "Make a move and you die where you sit." The guy peed his pants and almost fainted: "We're not hurtin' anybody, just looking for stuff to rip off, mister." "Well," says neighbor Bob, "we'll wait here together for the sheriff."
Turned out that it was the sheriff's kid.
Ever since then, our immediate area has been remarkably law-abiding. Since 90% of crime is committed by the same group of criminals, word spreads quickly.
It is wise to know the law concerning defending yourself and your property.
In MN, we are legally justified in shooting to stop a threat in an occupied dwelling. If they're running away, or they are in a detached garage, then legally they are not a threat.
Shooting at knees and legs is a bad idea. If pulling the trigger is justified, then shoot center mass.
We've been hit here at the farm 33 times we know of, I did follow 3 thieves to another county after they stold 2 of my snowplows and other steel and a trailer off the farm, I'd had the sheriff out that a.m. , they'd check salvage yards, so did I and on the way to the house passed these idiots w/my goods, called the wife who called sheriff and he called next county sheriff, we arrested them at the scrap yard, where I'd also called and told them what was gone, went to trail, the youngest one spilled the beans that they had hit me once before and stolden a load Of T and TT Parts which they had scrapped, oldest one is still paying for the first load, and the black one went to prison, I got the load back that afternoon at the scrap yard. We both have conceal to carry. Last sat a.m. 2:30 my wife and dog heard a noise in our driveway, close to the house, as they had pulled almost up in front of the house, She stepped out and w/ a 38 pistol met them in the driveway, she asked them what they were doing here, they needed a gallon of water for the beat up truck, she told them she was armed and they threw there hands up and told them who they were, she came back in and went back out w/ a gallon of water and they still had there hands up, she told them we'd had lots of thieves here, and she doen't miss when shooting, they put the water in the truck and she had her phone w/her and photoed there lisc. plate, came back to the house and called the law to be on the lookout for these two. I believe she put the fear of god into them. So R.V. Missouri is a cc state come on down.
Good story John.......But 33 times.....I couldn't take it.....The second time at a country house we had in KY. we were broken into when we wasn't home and they stole all my guns, rifles, my wife's jewelry, among other things and it was a rape like feeling... We work hard for what we have and for someone to take it makes me sick......We moved back to TN got rid of the farm, cows, horses, tractor and etc.... We now live in the city limits where we have neighborhood watch and everyone really looks out for each other.... Although I realize it can still happen... I have my protection beside the bed and other places.... I guess if I get broken into again they will get those too "AGAIN"....But I refuse to let the Bas***'s get the best of me... Chet
Anything in my home or on my property is worth more than the life of someone who would steal it. Don't take that to mean that I would shoot someone for merely trespassing, but you can bet the fear of being prosecuted far outweighs my concern for their well being. We have a "Stand your ground law", but I don't want to have to find out exactly how that works. I have a carry permit and I sometimes carry. One is not required in GA to own a gun or use it to defend your home, only to carry concealed in public. Given the circumstances, I probably would have done what Daniel did, but it's not because of any humanitarian feelings on my part. It's because I would be scared of the consequences.
Wonder how our current constitution rights are going to be effected for the next few years. 22 ammunition is still hard to find here. I could cross the bridge to Washington and buy pot easier.
Chet the farm ia down the road 1/2 mile and I can't see it from where we live, the law sits behind the barns waiting, and we do too but they seem to know who's where and get inbetween us. But there day will come, they've stolden grates out of the floor, wiring, pipes, Lustrau I have a friend who stored his tractor there they got his riad also, another 2 friends had 20's automobiles stored there, there riad gone too, so far my T and TT still have theirs, its in a concrete steel door build, the House parts (its disassembled ) and stored down there, they've stolden riad. out of my 706 Int, messed up my pusher M. Home luckilly Ins pd me for the remains of it. My wife carries full time as I'm almost home bound w a bad heart valve so she checks the farms .
What if those cinder blocks had hit someone as they came thru the door, like a grandchild spending the night or someone asleep in the easy chair? I've lived in rural areas my whole life & grew up with guns. Not very many of us here truely know what we will actually do when something like this happens (a near drowning experience years ago taught me that what you think you'll do & what you actually do are 2 different things), but I'd like to think that at least one of those guys wouldn't have walked away.
Yup,I tryed to buy 22's today but no such luck!Looking to buy another Henry and the .17hmr is cheap and plentyful but a .357 Golden Boy might fit the bill.I/we need something to kill woodchuck's! The 300 win mag is too much,out of 12 gauge range,and 22's take too many.A .223 would work but to me gun's are things of bueaty and i'll never owne a ar-15!I don't much of 50 round clip's either.Bud.
John, I believe if I was going to stay there I would consider some security camera's since they have hit you that many times. Or even use the fake one's to make them think you have them....Just a thought...Chet
Sign on my friend's garage window:
"Gun Control Means Using Both Hands for Better Aim"
Years ago I had confronted a a pair of brothers for stealing Carol's pick up. They took it up in the hills and burned it up after a joy ride. I caught up with one of the brothers a couple weeks later and pounded him into the ground. The next night the other brother walked into my driveway, threw a rock at my door and when I opened it, he fired three shots from a sawed off Mossberg shotgun from about 20 feet away.
These guys had terrorized our small town for weeks, stealing, shooting up the bank, a mom and pop store and a couple cars.
I have no sympathy for thieves. Zero. Come into my house and invade my space and my stuff, I am going to assume they are armed so they can count on getting a bullet if I am in a position to make it happen. Period.
I think I would have ripped off a couple of stray rounds just to familiarize them with the sounds of their future if they didn't get it together and straighten up. Sort of private "scared straight" lesson.
Kevin: I, thankfully, have not encountered two legged intruders, but I have faced four legged ones, as in bears. A shot in their direction caught their attention and as you suggested, I sent a couple more near them as they ran off. It worked, there have been no repeat bears.
A friend of mine once told me there was nothing fare in a gun fight,you keep moving,there are no rules, and you only stop shooting long enough to reload but you keep moving. It's better to think about your actions afterwards then not to be able too.
Guys, Center mass doesn't necessarily stop the guy. See this. http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-center-mass-myth-and-ending-a-gunfight-trigg ernometry/ However, aim for what you can hit, and don't stop until they are incapacitated. Also Alabama is now a right to carry state and the county sheriff must issue a concealed permit within 30 days of application unless there is reason to not.
Security camera evidence by itself is not much good without supporting evidence. Friend had his home robbed with good pictures of the well known robber. Police would not charge because other evidence like finger prints were not found--he had gloves on. He only had to say it was not him in the picture.
A blood trail makes good supporting evidence. Plenty of DNA there.
Texas law is very explicit when it comes to deadly force. Probably further than other states by allowing deadly force not only to protect property, but also to stop rape, arson, burglary, robbery, theft at night and criminal mischief at night. And once deadly force is justified, you have NO duty to retreat.
Reading all these posts here that I agree with, I hope all of you are supporting the NRA or other organizations to prevent the Do-Gooder / politicians from getting rid of all those "killer guns" that we have in our homes.
They won't get mine!
I think if needed i could protect my famley but i hope i never need to do it.I also like my gun's and freedom but do people really need 50 or 100 round clips?? Did anyone see the cop killers defending cattleman/tax dodger bundy on tv? Bud.
Oh yes, most certainly! If someone is driving off with a car load of my property, a 50 or 100 round clip would come in real handy.
I could guarantee that vehicle would never be used again.
I taught my wife how to shoot this is her latest target
What was that Dirty Harry said?
Go ahead, make my day.
I saw a video this week from a windshield camera where a cop was having a shoot-out with a guy by a car in front of him.
When the cop stopped to reload the guy in front of him just ran back to the cop and shot him to death-point blank.
I knew some day Bud and I would find something to disagree on.
Now if the cop would have had a 50 round clip......
Nope,In this case i think your right Aaron!! What i hate to see on tv is where some kid kills so many because it's easy! Bud.
It's easy because they usually pick "gun free zones" where nobody is allowed to defend themselves.
To think that restricting magazine capacity would prevent those type of tragic events is to think that the best defense is hoping the bad guy runs out of ammunition before he gets to you.
That was a good article btw, John Z. Read it from start to finish. A little wordy and repetitive but he had many good points.
Meth really puts a different slant on home invasions and crime in general. Several years ago, a couple towns over (Springfield) a high school kid was home alone and heard a noise downstairs.
He grabbed a small caliber semi-auto and encountered a methed-out felon who had broken out the lower portion of the kitchen door and was trying to crawl through. The kid emptied all but one round into the guy's upper chest and neck area and the dude was so strung out on meth he just kept coming. The kid finally secured a blunt object and knocked the guy out.
We;ve had camera's up, so they came and stold (sp) the camera's
If you have a gun and have to shoot someone your chances of hitting the person at center mass is much higher then if you're going to try to settle in and aim.
I'm not going to argue that someone could still do damage if hit center mass but it's the exception not the rule. That's why the majority of trainers tell you to shoot center mass.
If you own a gun that you're comfortable with and you really do practice shooting instinctively then you're chances are much better of shooting to kill. Heart, head, lungs, throat etc. good instinctive shooters can place their shots.
People who own guns who've been taught how to lock and load but haven't developed shooting skills have the best chance if they shoot center mass.
Best weapon for home defense is a hand grenade or a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buck shot.
Next would be a large caliber handgun with hollow points.
Then last would be a rifle but either learn how to shoot like Lucas MaCain or do the best you can with open sights.
If your using Daddy's 30-06 Remington model 700 BDL with Ziess 4-12 X scope with a 40 MM reticle dialed in dead on at 200 yards; I wish you the best. But maybe you should have a baseball bat as a backup.
If they steal stuff from your farm 33 times try setting traps?
I have a 12 gauge side by shotgun and about half dozen (paper) shells loaded with quarter inch rock salt. If someone comes calling I want them to have a little something to remember me by and why it's not a good idea to make any plans for a return trip! Daniel, I would've liberally dusted those boys backsides as they crammed through that door, that's best place to put reminders like mine, lol.
VERY Traumatic I know from experience.
Kep: Unattended traps set to intentionally mame or injure is illegal in all states, and setting one to capture and hold is false imprisonment (Kidnapping) both of which can ruin your whole week!
You have to understand, laws are written to protect us from them but also to protect them from us. Nothing against you
G. R. but sadly you're right. Some believe revenge is a dish best serve cold. But when we start to ignore our own laws, society suffers.
AGREED! Mike, I Sometimes wish a couple of "Bubbas" would catch one or two and take them to the woodshed, but I got this in an e-mail and even though I believe it was meant to be a joke it illustrates the frustration that most feel about the police:
John was coming upstairs to go to bed when his wife called down telling him he had left the light on to his tool shed. John stopped on the landing and saw that the light was indeed on and there were 2 young men trying to break in, so John called 911 and the operator told him to stay inside but it would probably be 20 or 30 minutes before she could get someone out there because there just wasn't anyone available. John hung up and counted to 30 then called 911 again and told the operator that she could take her time sending someone because he had just shot both of them and they weren't going anywhere! 2 minutes later 3 swat team members showed up and caught the thieves in the act hand cuffed them the swat team leader went to the front door and angrily started beating on John's door and when the elderly John opened the door the swat team leader said "I thought you said you had shot both men" to which John replied "I thought you said there was no one available".
The best thing I've found that works is the "invisible fence". I have wire about an inch or 2 under ground enclosing about 5 acres to include the house and all outbuildings. Inside that lives a pit bull and a lab with shock collars. Both will bite. When a vehicle pulls into the driveway, the Lab goes for the tires and the Pit likes to eat plastic bumpers, but, will settle for a tire if he can't bite the bumper. They work 24 hr days for practically nothing!
I had an "invisible fence" The bad thing about those is if the dog runs after something on the other side of the "fence" he won't be able to come back across the "fence" without getting shocked.
After a while the dog will remember where the fence is located.
The other bad part of some dogs is they can hurt some one you don't want to hurt. My neighbors dog bit a kids foot riding by on his bicycle it cost him dearly when it became known he was warned about the dogs temperament.
I love dogs my three yappers warn me of some one coming nine hundred feet away. Neighbors yellow lab and Boston terrier come over for cookies strolling through the house like they own it!
I would not pull a gun to show it off, if it comes out it gets fired for effect. Just finished class on "active shooter on campus" this week. If somebody is in my house after throwing a block through my window there will be plaster repair and new carpet. I heard they were going for weapons and be right back.
We are a little different in this house, dad (me) shoots guns for a living and the kids grew up with it. Son just joined the army and could have taught the range. 23 year old daughter saw a woodchuck last month and grabbed a rifle and went around the house to smack it on the hill. This is not the house to sneak around day or night.
An "active shooter" is not a hostage situation where you can talk and form a bond, they are in a video game mode where everything that moves gets shot. Anybody in my house is going to shoot me when they see me because they know they are not where they should be and are going to try to kill me so not go to jail. That is my perspective and what I will assume.
Many years ago my AUnt & Uncle lived 1/2 mile out of town on steep, narrow almost 4X4 driveway. A car pulled up to the house around 2 AM one night and the driver tried to enter the house. My Aunt called 911 and as the operator was telling my Aunt it would be 20-30 minutes before the sheriff could get there, the 911 operator heard my Uncle yell to the person on the other side of the door "If you keep trying to bust the &%#&* door I'm going to shoot you"
City police were there within 2 minutes to arrest the drunk.
On this subject, my house is a tri-level 3 story, I worked at my shop today, I just got home and someone has tried to pry my back door open and broke the door jam, and my wife was home all day, by her self, she had no clue any thing had happened.
About a month ago I change the deadbolt lock out to one that goes inside a heavy metal sleeve in the door jam about 4 inches, was a chore to install, but I'm glad I did. Lazy thief gave up, I guess to much work.
Where we bank has a sign on the door "concealed carry guns are welcome here". Last year a guy entered and presented a teller with a note demanding money. The bank president, a former student, followed him out of the bank, locked the door behind him and confronted the guy before he got his truck started. Told the guy that if he started it, he would not be able to drive it out of the lot. The truck was not started. Since then I have learned that two other employees have permits.
Reading all these post reminds me of when I went to school.... My Dad, being a Golden Glove Champion Boxer before he was drafted in the Army, always told his three sons that a bully in school is just that, a bully.... They don't like to get hit they just like to bully....And often did I find that to be true.....And a thief is so much like a bully....They don't want to be shot....And they will not go into a home that they even think such will happen....Like you have read so many times, the worse thing to hear in the dark is the sound of a gun makes when it is cocked and the second is the sound it makes when it is shot....Now obviously that does not 100% hold true or no homeowner would ever be shot in his house....Some thieves are looking for drugs and aren't in their right state of mind to begin with....I know all this isn't Model T information, but it has been very interesting to read what the forum members feel about this subject....And I know without a doubt when I need to know something when it come to the T they will give me some intelligent advice also....And LOrd knows I'll be needing some more T information soon.....Thanks Chet
Man, you guys live in rough neighbourhoods. Come on up to Canada, I live in a decent area but right next to a low (read as 'no') income housing development. Worst thing I've had was one night I left my car unlocked and some jerk stole my ashtray and all sixty four cents it contained. He even had the courtesy to close the door when he was done.
Sorry Tim. With all respect - I have to decline. A few years ago, on my last trip into Canada, I was surprised by a PSA (Public Service Announcement) that played over and over on the radio as we drove along.
The calm and friendly voice of government was telling the listener to "report your friends and neighbors if you suspect them of possessing a firearm".
I don't want to live under that either - although it is starting to get as bad as that in some places here in the states.
I hope Canada is not stupid enough to let what appears to be happening in the USA with our thinking and leadership.
Don't know though with Toronto's crack smoking mayor. You might just be a few years behind our economic recovery!
As I remember there was less theft problem when common jobs were available.
I have no problem with people who carry legal,but do they need 50/100 round clips? Were the cop killers in rancher bundy's army legal? Good or bad? What to do about all the kid's killing other kid's? DO YOU GET IT OR ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING?? Happy Fathers Day! Bud.
Kenneth, how many crimes have you heard of that were actually committed with 50 or 100 round magazines?
Most "high capacity" sporting rifle magazines are 30 rounds, and most "high capacity" pistol magazines are about 16-20 rounds.
That argument is a red herring.
I hear a lot of talk about 50 and 100 round magazines, but I think those are the rare exception and not the rule in any shootings. How many school shootings have been perpetrated by people using guns with these?
And what calibers do 50 and 100 round clips come in? 22LR? Seems like anything bigger would be huge on any pistol or rifle.
I had a tec9 9mm with a 32 round clip and it made the pistol so front heavy that it was just about useless. Not to mention the fact that it couldn't shoot more than three rounds of any ammo without jamming. (Hence their nick name "Jamma-Matic").
Well, I cant run well, and I only have a old 38 revolver here to use if needed.
But just a few hours ago, I was in the liveing room takeing a break and watching a movie when I saw a reflection on the wall. turns out a white honda had pulled in the yard, and was fixing to leave and the sun was reflecting off the windshield.
My door was open, clearly visable that someone was home. I walked out, and I saw which way he turned from the driveway and I went thru the woods and was road side when he went by.No effort to stop as if "Oh there ye are".
After a minute or 2 my dogs got to barking. I got my gun and as I went back out the door there he was in the next drive way. They are home to.
I called 9-11. In the mean time, I saw him twice again going up and down the road slow.
It took the law man 18 minutes to get here.
I explained what happened and discrbed the hippe looking dude and so far,have heard nothing.
I feel like he was casein the place.
Ok, with that in mind. Had he made his way in the door, surprised me, knocked me down or shot me an made off with some stuff, that 18 minutes woulda cost my life probably. So yea, I would make sure he didnt reproduce again at least before he got to me.
And 6 rounds into a druggy, not much good but to make him made. I want MORE ammo than my opponent not less.
I don't want to live where u guys live. It sounds like the wild west.
I like guns and have several but to me to me a nice wood stock and a mag that holds what you can hunt with.I find no sport with a ar-15 and even a 30 shot clip.I remember long long ago when i asked the sgt why everything sam had was not full auto?? The man said think how many trucks it would take to haull ammo? Sporting rifle sporting pistol?? What can you hunt with?
Where does the 2nd Amendment say anything about hunting?
If I were facing a mob of 12 I would want a flame thrower (a 50 round magazine would also work). Facing multiple threats won't cut with a 5 shot revolver.
Many wont accept the fact that when the second amendment was written, it affirmed the citizens rights to the same armement as our army. I have heard folks argue that when the second amendment was written they didn't have semi-automatics. Not a valid arguement. The citizen held the same right as the govt with that regard.
It can get hairy real quick in regards to what is morally right and wrong.Or right or wrong according to our constitution.
But in the end common sense needs to prevail.
A person or persons threatening others is a problem that needs to be met with equal or greater strength to protect the innocents they want to harm.
If it takes a 30 round clip to save someone from a threat, so be it.
And besides, ask a swat team member how many rounds he has to protect you from a crook. I bet he has more than 5 or 6. He is approaching a threat with greater strength to insure his safety and that of who he is trying to protect.
And sadly, if I was trying to hunt,it would take 30 rounds for me to hit the running food anyhow. :>0
I would have to pick lead out of my teeth for days because if I hit at all it would probably be in the parts I am supposed to eat.
I think many of the folks who want everybody to pack maximum heat picture themselves in an emergency mowing down the bad guys like Dirty Harry. They don't expect to be shot dead by the bad guy's wife like that fellow in the Wal-Mart last week.
Mack hit it on the head! In the end common sense needs to prevail!!!!!!!!!!!! More or less about 55 years ago it was warm and the windows were open and cooners were in the garden!! My Dad yelled bud get your gun,and when the car roared by the 410 was right on the drivers head!!!! The driver was lucky and so was i!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I never fired but a young kid could have made a horriable mistake!! Bud.
I think what you describe, Steve is what a lot of anti-2nd amendment folks think gun owners think. Which of course, is simply not true.
Some years back, a study was done on the NYPD shots fired to actual hits by the police. The hits were only about 12%. This is for trained officers! Think you don't need a little extra in the magazine? Last time I needed the Sheriff around here it took him three hours to show up. Most of the time we only have one Deputy on duty for a county 110 miles long. Be prepared always. PK
I recently received A CCW from Utah, legal in most states that allow CCW. How ever here in Kali can't use it yet , some laws had been stuck down in Kal. except L.A.County. They are still trying to figure out how to get around it. Orange county to the south are issuing.
George n L.A.
can Kenneth W Delong explain what he means by "and the cooners were in the garden"
Well i think there is one to many and's but.People stealing from a garden were said to be cooners.Lucky Bud.
If you guys want to disarm yourselves go ahead. It's a free country as long as the politicians don't control who is allowed to have guns, or write newspaper articles, or which church we can go to.
As soon as one of those things is taken away all the others will go away too.
Pat, you make a great point. I'm pretty sure I have had far more training in firearms than ANY member of the sheriff's office in my county. And likewise for the police in any town.
Who knows how helpful a 2nd amendment and capitalism would have been to the citizens of Rwanda in the years leading up to the massive massacres of those same citizens.
And I bet China would be a very different place now too.
Understandably there are different opinions on this thread. One right not to be taken away with an executive order is the right to vote. I will!
As Paul says, different opinions. And that's fine. When I was nine I killed a possum. The lesson I learned was that live animals are more interesting than dead ones, so I have a deal with the critters. If they don't attack me I don't attack them. When I was in the army the guy doing the scoring said I hit the target enough times to be an expert, so I guess I was OK at it. Since getting out in 1967 I think I may have fired a gun twice. In my case I did enough shooting to satisfy me in the army, and I enjoy other things more. There are all sorts of hobbies, and I have no beef with folks whose hobby is firearms.
But when it comes to the "gun control debate" some of the arguments get pretty silly, with extremists on both sides taking hard positions based in fantasy. Some want everybody disarmed, and some want even crazy and/or incompetent people packing heat.
So I'll vote according to what seems reasonable to me, and hope most other folks agree with me on what's reasonable. Mister Lincoln's comment that "you can't fool all the people all the time" leads the cynic in me to respond that you only have to fool 50% + 1 on election day, but then I think of Churchill's comment that the Americans do what's right after they've exhausted all the other possibilities.
Hang in there, we're all in this together.
Yep, Steve. The moment I shot my first duck at 12 years old while on a hunt with my dad and uncle, I knew that killing animals wasn't for me. And for the same reason you stated, "live animals are more interesting than dead ones".
But I will never give those guys (and gals) a hard time for going out hunting. Besides, I love the elk pepperoni one friend prepares...grin...
I'm not a hunter either, but I do enjoy target shooting. I have a 150yd range off the deck of the house, you can see the backstop in the distance.
My kids enjoy it, and both shoot a Cricket .22LR with close supervision. It's just another fun hobby to spend time with the boys.
Me as well. I have had fifty head of elk camped in my yard several times. Ducks Geese and other critters come out of the swamp pond eating shrubs and creating piles that sometimes need picking up. Tourists jam the road at the end of my drive way taking pictures of critters I see every day.
Nice roadster pickup Derek. I made a new box for my 16 black smith built, then put the old one back on. The new one looked like lipstick on a pig!
That looks more like an M-1 Garand.
I suppose people's opinions on guns are like opinions on Model T's. Some will go so far as a 12 volt system, but no farther and anyone who goes farther than that is wrong. Others may go so far as an alternator, but anyone who goes farther than that is wrong. Same with guns. Somebody who hunts has no problem with someone else wanting to own a hunting rifle, but they don't believe anyone "NEEDS" a gun with a detachable magazine. Some say they are OK with rifles and shotguns but why does anyone "NEED" a hand gun? It's fine and dandy to do what YOU do, but if anyone wants to go further than YOU go, then it must be wrong.
If someone doesn't want to own guns, that's fine with me, but don't pass laws preventing me from doing it. You really think a law against using a certain size magazine will prevent someone from doing it? I can see it now. Some guy is planning on going into a shopping mall and shoot up the place and says to himself "No, I'd better just take the single shot shotgun 'cause that 13 round clip in the 9mm is illegal." Yeah, right!
Are you down there by Elkton/Reedsport, Paul?
No Dan four miles south of the Columbia river bar where the river is five miles wide at Warrenton. One of my favorite places to visit is the Bandon petting zoo. The folks there do an amazing job of putting critters with people. I have held baby critters that are predators in the wild. One was a exotic possum I never thought I would touch. It was as gentle as a kitten.
I think that used to be called "Deer Park". Loved that place growing up. I had no idea it was still around. May need to take my grand daughters on a day run there.
Ask your anti gun neighbor if he would put this sign on his front and back doors.
I like your profile !!!!!
Yeah, me too.
I dont usually have trouble with folks trying to steal my scrap iron or AC cores because I dont only pack heat but its parked in my front lawn and if they feel 30mm automatic cannon fire is a fair trade for scrap iron....more power to them :-/
A gun is like a parachute. Chances are you will never need it, but if you do need it and donít have it you will never need one again.
One of my dad's favorite sayings was "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"!
One of my favorites is "Fear the government that fears your right to protect yourself".
I too, and my wife, love the critters that frequent our yard. Many people do not approve, but we have bird feeders, and we do not run off the raccoons or skunks. I put fresh water out for the deer. We have not seen the bears, however they have done some damage, mostly to one of the bird feeders which I have repaired four times now.
We often refer to the wildlife simply as "the neighbors". A few days ago, my wife took a couple pictures of an eagle that landed in a huge pine tree next door. The eagle refused to pose nicely, so the pictures did not turn out real well. She sure enjoyed seeing it up so close.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Bride told me before I had seen the Bandon petting zoo there was a dog and a lion who slept and ate in the same cage. Have issues with coons after one chewed up my small dog. After a week of spoon feeding him he lived to seventeen.
Sorry for the thread drift probably all that needs to be said has been except vote the mid term.