As I cleaned up my rear wheel hubs, I noticed that they were different form each other. Is one hub more correct for a 1922 Touring?
Here are some pictures comparing each one. It was interesting to see small sized nuts on one of the brake drums. 5/8 compared to 11/16 Is the smaller size nut not correct? The bolts seemed to be the same diameter.
There were more hub cap threads on one than the other. One brake hub with the larger nuts and more hub cap threads was in better condition. The spokes were loose on both so I will have Stutzman's do them this winter but if there getting torn down I would like to get the correct parts.
Here are the Ford Script Pictures.
Typical! The 5/8" nuts are modern replacements. The 11/16" nuts are most likely originals, and are probably somewhat thinner than the 5/8" nuts.
Any Idea what hub goes to what year of Model T?
Also, I found a felt washer in the recess of the picture below. Is that correct. I thought that the only felt washer in the rear was in the axle housing dust cap? What is that recess for in this picture for?
Here is a picture of what I am talking about.
Yes. A felt washer goes there. You rarely find it intact.
So is that the Rear Hub Felt Washer I see at the parts houses #(2809).
Does anyone have an exploded diagram of the rear wheels, Brakes and Axles so I can make sure I have all the parts I need and can get them in the right order?
Maybe this will help:
Has any one seen these hub differences on particular years of Model T. I would like to at least identify what might be correct for my 1922 Touring.
The picture of how things fit together is nice but doesn't show all the small items like felt washers and steel washers.
Adam, the Mac's catalogue is an excellent reference for this sort of thing. It has exploded views to show what goes where. The #2809 felt washer that goes in that groove is used on both front and rear hubs.
Both the Rodda book and Bruce's encyclopedia omit any mention of the rear hub differences you noted. They and the 1928 Ford parts book list just one hub for wood wheels from 1912 through 1927. My guess would be that the one with more thread is later, but I have no idea of the years. I'll bet by now there are thousands of T's that have both. As the nephew says in Tobacco Road, "It don't hurt the runnin' of it none."
Steve, I have seen the Mac's exploded views before but can not find them online anymore. Am I missing something?
As far as the hub question, I'm sure it doesn't hurt anything running two different hubs but it would be cool to know what is the correct type hub and where/what the other hub came from. It's part of some of the fun mysteries that I like to slove on the car.
Is there Anyone out there that has a 1922 touring that can identify if one of the hubs pictured above matches something they have. I would like to know what a correct hub looks like for this car.
It may be difficult to find a match pair because there were several manufacturers I have several hubs and they are all different in some ways, short threads, long threads, threads in different positions and different number of threads the only common denominator is the threads are all the same pitch. Any year could have several suppliers.
2809 is indeed the front hub felt, and yes it is used in the rear hub too.
Adam, what you're missing is the printed catalogue. It's a great reference. I keep one just because of the illustrations. I won't get into Mac's less than sterling reputation, but their catalogue is the best in the business.
As for matching what's on another car, you're limited to samples from a car with a documented history of no changes. Those are mighty rare. On most of these cars we have no idea what may have been changed in the past 90+ years. Lots of folks assume everything on their car is original, but mighty few of them are right.
I called MAC's to find out what happened to the Online version of the exploded views. They told me they got rid of them and I asked if they were still in the catalog and they said they are not in there anymore either.
I had already ordered a catalog so I guess I will know for sure in about three weeks.
So these Felt washers go under the dust cap in the Front Wheel Hubs?
But there is no cap in the rear hubs?
I purchased these Modern Neoprene Dust seals so I think I am covered for the seals in the front. But because I have the Hayes Demountable Rims, If I wanted to be original would I need to get the Hayes Dust Caps Pictured below and the felt washers or what do these Hayes Dust Caps go to?
Here is a good Picture that I found for the Front Hubs. Anything like this for the Rear Hubs out there?
Update: I just got my MAC's catalog and the exploded parts diagrams are still in the catalog. I guess the person I talked with had no clue what the hell I was talking about.
They explained that the diagrams were pulled from the website, which I found to be true, but the representative also explained how they were not in the catalog either. I even had them thumb through a section or two to check. Well, they are there. It kind of makes me mad that it took me two seconds to verify that the diagrams were in there. I'm glad I ordered the catalog anyway. Even if its just for the pictures.
The wheel suppliers Kelsey, Prudden, and Hayes also supplied the grease "seals", which were identified by the names except for Kelsey, for whom the single upper case letter "K" sufficed. The lettered caps pretty much went away with the introduction of the roller bearings in 1919, and the shape was changed to a flat rather than a concave profile: the concave, lettered caps were used only with ball bearings. The flat style was/is used with the roller bearings.
The rear hub felts "fit" into the machined groove identified by the arrow in your photos. Its function was not to seal anything in, but rather to soak up the grease that leaked out, so of course it required regular replacement.
Your phone experience and the catalogue taking ten days to arrive shows why some of us prefer the other dealers. I bet if you call for a catalogue from any of them you'll have it in less than half the time. As for the person on the phone knowing what's what, Steve Lang at Lang's and Dave at Chaffin's are real Model T guys and know which way is up. I'd much rather deal with somebody like that.
Not all front dust seals have the felt retaining ring to keep the felt in. Some just use the cap and a felt, the same felt front wheel or for the recess in rear hub, less the cap. While you can get by fine with out the felt, they just kinda float in the recess.
I would be more concerned about the condition of the spokes then worrying about if the hubs match, no one will see the hubs after they are installed anyway. If both hubs have good key ways and tapers, use them. But in the end that's up to you.
From the inside out;
axle seal, washer, sleeve installed, roller bearing installed, washer, seal, cap, rear hub felt seal if installed, hub then the nut.