Many of the cars are now in route to this years Montana 500 "Endurance Run". Last years winner Garrett Green will again have 3 Team Green cars running in the race. This year Garrett is sponsoring, Andria Myers, a young gal from the Long Beach club who owns two T's. After driving his 26 roadster last year for Garrett I hinted to Andria at our clubs swap meet that she should consider entering in the race.
Since my daughters wedding takes a slight precedence over driving in the race I'm delighted to see her getting her chance. I expect she'll have one of her own cars there next year.
Good Luck to all the drivers and have a safe run, hopefully a dry one as well.
Please keep us posted as the race progresses.
Safe travelling and safe racing to all involved. Please post results and pictures as soon as someone is able. Wish I could be there!
Gene, Have a wonderful time at your daughters wedding. I'm sure you will be a very proud and happy Dad!
Congratulations on your daughter's upcoming nuptials.
I look forward to results and pictures from the 500.
Best wishes and good luck to all the 500 participants. Have a safe race.
Best wishes to the bride.
I plan to leave tomorrow. I heard that some of the folks are already there.
Any racers running the TW timer?
Based on the current rules TW timers are not allowed.
Maybe the rules can be changed in the future, it would be interesting to see how it works in competition with the current favorite, Anderson timers.
Someone may want to have the rules changed to allow TW timers. I have no heartburn about allowing TW timers, but I think few of the front runners would use them. Any timer with a brush that runs on an insulator needs to be cleaned periodically. The Anderson uses air as an insulator so most drivers never have to attend to them throughout the run. The second thing about the Anderson is that it can be timed perfectly. The other timers cannot. At high speeds, especially above 55 mph, perfect timing is very important.
You posted :
"The Anderson uses air as an insulator so most drivers never have to attend to them throughout the run. The second thing about the Anderson is that it can be timed perfectly. The other timers cannot. At high speeds, especially above 55 mph, perfect timing is very important." ............... guess the Exact timing qualities of the E-Timer would not be reconsiderded.
Good luck and safe driving to all, and most of all enjoy .
In my opinion, a perfectly set up stock system can approach the E-timer for performance. At least for high speed operation. A perfectly set up stock system involves many things, such as four balanced coils. Coils cannot be effectively balanced on a HCCT alone. It requires an ECCT or an oscilloscope. Also you need magneto magnets that are charged exactly correctly. You need a timer that makes contact fully and correctly at the right time. Even then, the E-timer will beat the stock system over the entire RPM range due to its ability to automatically retard. As such, I don't see the E-timer ever being allowed at the Montana 500.
Tom is loaded and leaving for libby in a couple hours.
I assume he has an upgraded tranny converter in that Windstar. How many mpg?
I believe that Tom is right about the TW timers needing to stay clean. I switched to a TW timer this last spring and love it but I have found that a good wiping out of the carbon dust in the casing every couple hundred of miles does help performance and smooth out the engine. It not that hard to do and only takes a few moments.
I can't believe that Tom is going to push that van the entire way!
Mike, I bet some here would be really interested to see some close up pictures of the rear wheel adapter and how you guys tow your cars.
I saw that last year and was really impressed. Very neat set up!
YES, Enjoy the ride and have a Safe Run!
Ralph, the T pulls as easy as having a couple of big people in the back seat. I used to pull it all over the place with a 4 cyl. Oldsmobile. The Windstar gets about 15 mpg as I recall.
More pics of the rear tow wheels at:
Not too hard with wire wheels.
I to would be interested on understanding that towing set up. Does it turn the drive line?
Here are some pictures I quickly snapped before he left.
Thanks for the update on the 500 Gene and congratulations on your Daughter's wedding, hope you all have a great time at the wedding.
Good luck to all Montana 500 participants in this year's race. Hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable run. Looking forward to updates as they roll in.
Talked to Rick C Friday, asked him about how stock the T's had to be, he told me stock, just some back yard mechanics putting the cars together. I told him some people just have better back yards then others! LOL Have fun everyone.
Can someone explain how the rear wheel set up works on the towed car? Is the differential locked out and the small rear wheel has an outside bearing set up? I really don't understand the large block against the hub. Maybe it is just a spacer?
The E timer doesn't work on magneto so it would not be of any use even if this were a contest for 21st century electronic gizmos.
The Montana 500 is a race for Ford Model T's using period technology. Since the TW style timer was an original type design and it uses no electronic components it seems like a valid option if the folks who vote on the rules want it.
The Model T hobby is about preserving the history and technology of the era. Adding plastic crap with printed circuits is faking it. Just say no to fake stuff!
Tom, the hubs have their own bearing.
Royce, you tell 'em!
Royce, REALLY ????, you should seek help to come out of your shell. Broken record of bullshxt.
Here is a better photo of the added spindle/wheel hub. The hand brake on the original T rear end can be set and it does not turn at all.
It looks pretty low but I don't know if the brake drum would drag on the road if the added tire went flat.
Did someone say sompen about an new electro timer?
PLEASE Don't Answer LOL. sad
When are you going to paint your trailer Queen an original Color? At least you can't see an E-Timer. And it gives you the performance of a stock system with NO messy maintenance. Not everyone can maintain their electrical system to Montana 500 quality. I haven't seen your name on the 500 winner list.
p.s. Thanks Tom for your comments.
There is nothing wrong with the stock T ignition I just like the no maintenance of the E-timer fore my High mileage T's
Hope you are having a great day too!
Which of my cars should I repaint first? I've got a black one, a green one, a salmon one, and one in black cherry?
Play nice boys.
Happy Fathers Day.
I suggest you go to the local hardware store and buy a case of black paint. Then you can do all 3 cars at one time.
Rumor has it Henry said 'Any color as long as it is black'.
As long as the metal is being preserved I really do not care what color your T's are. I just believe it is Criminal the way U repeatedly attack The E-timer an INVISIBLE accessory. That allows you with No modifications to enjoy with no maintenance a perfectly maintained ignition for 10'S of thousands of Miles.
I have logged over 20 thousand miles on the E-timer. The only ignition failure in that time was a coil that the primary went open at the battery contact. Age not an E-timer problem.
P.S. The stock system works Great If properly maintained. I will continue to run stock Ignition on my tractor conversions and TT's Low mileage T's.
Correct me if I'm wrong, (yet again) but seems to me towing a car with temporary spares(as shown in the above photos) is a bit scary.
Temporary spares have a speed and distance limit. Seems to me towing a car on the freeway at freeway speeds from Spokane to Montana with temporary spares is pushing the limit more than just a bit.
i agree, and a little taller tire and wheel combo would be on my junk yard list
and by the way, i thought we talkin montana 500, whats goin on out there? sure wish i could do it some day
Those funny spares don't get much of a workout on the rear of a roadster. No turning; no braking; mebbe 350 lb load.
Ralph is right. Very little load. Those spares are made to use on big Cadillacs and stuff like that. On the front wheels of a Cad I wouldn't want to go too fast. I usually buy brand new wheels every year or two for five bucks a piece. Having said all that, I'll tow my T that way, as I have for 35 years and thousands and thousands of miles, and you do it your way.
Tom, How many cars this year?
Nineteen under time to start out
|Mike Stormo||Davenport, WA||187.4||03:27:48|
|Jillian Robison||Valley Ford, WA||187.4||03:30:42|
|Dennis Powers||Odgen, Iowa||187.4||03:31:54|
|Tom Carnegie||Spokane Valley, WA||187.4||03:32:35|
|Mike Cuffe||Eureka, MT||187.4||03:33:18|
|Garrett Green||Orange, CA||187.4||03:34:58|
|Mike Robison||Valley Ford, WA||187.4||03:36:38|
|Sergio Hernandez||Belle Gardens, CA||187.4||03:36:58|
|Dan Brown||La Porte City, Iowa||187.4||03:39:12|
|Rick Carnegie||Otis Orchards, WA||187.4||03:44:06|
|Alex Sandy Watt||Orange, CA||187.4||03:44:53|
|Jamie Allen||Green Acres, Wa||187.4||03:45:44|
|Bill Mullins||Spokane, Wa||187.4||03:47:28|
|Ed Marshall||Burley, WA||187.4||03:54:23|
|Dan Lukowski||Uptown, Iowa||187.4||04:00:33|
|Patrick Barrett||Rainier, WA||187.4||04:14:18|
|Andria Myers||Long Beach, CA||187.4||04:14:32|
|Gary Yeager||Cheney, WA||187.4||04:26:15|
I'm not there so I don't know just exactly what is going on with the weather around Libby and wherever they are going today but according to Weatherunderground it is 43 and light rain with snow predicted for elevations over 4500 feet today. Same here. It's about 45, raining and cold. Might be a long day in an open T at 55-60 MPH.
Thanks Tom - fun to watch the results daily !
Some of us with speedsters went in touring class yesterday. Cool with off and on rain for the morning but really nice in the afternoon. Today it's 44 degrees and steady fairly light to medium rain. The speedster folks running without tops or fenders opted to stay warm and dry. The scenery is terrific and the route was fun yesterday.
Mike Stormo averaged 54.1 MPH yesterday and the top 11 cars averaged 50 or better.
Tom Thanks so much for the update!
Good Luck and have a Safe day to all the racers.
Thank you all!
Drive carefully, and enjoy! W2
Sounds like real cool weather for the past two days for the race, Like in sleet, ice and rain. Perfect day for a T that over heats maybe.
Think the top four have stayed about the same. Maybe Tom will post later.
Montana Freeze-hundred day two:
|1||Mike Stormo||Davenport, WA||391||07:20:48||53|
|2||Jillian Robison||Valley Ford, WA||391||07:23:28||53|
|3||Dennis Powers||Odgen, Iowa||391||07:29:00||52|
|4||Tom Carnegie||Spokane Valley, WA||391||07:30:09||52|
|5||Garrett Green||Orange, CA||391||07:33:43||52|
|6||Mike Cuffe||Eureka, MT||391||07:37:59||51|
|7||Mike Robison||Valley Ford, WA||391||07:39:58||51|
|8||Dan Brown||La Porte City, Iowa||391||07:41:23||51|
|9||Rick Carnegie||Otis Orchards, WA||391||07:44:45||51|
|10||Bill Mullins||Spokane, Wa||391||07:47:33||50|
|11||Alex Sandy Watt||Orange, CA||391||07:55:07||49|
|12||Jamie Allen||Green Acres, Wa||391||07:55:34||49|
|13||Dan & Dwayne Lukowski||Kansas City, Missouri||391||08:17:54||47|
|14||Andria Myers||Long Beach, CA||391||08:28:17||46|
|15||Ed Marshall||Burley, WA||391||08:30:06||46|
|16||Patrick Barrett||Rainier, WA||391||09:07:37||43|
|17||Sergio Hernandez||Belle Gardens, CA||361||07:56:26||50|
|18||Gary Yeager||Cheney, WA||withdrew|
A few flicks of the pit stop at Don's place in Noxon. The speedster tour cruised in first. We had a rare sun break. Don and Bev provided coffee and rolls. PK
(Message edited by adminchris on June 19, 2014)
|12||Alex Sandy Watt||09:46:00|
|13||Dan and Dwayne Lukowski||10:09:57|
Pat and Tom,
Thanks for posting. Definitely on my "bucket list" to see your event.
Congratulations to 2014 winners, Mike and Jullian!
I hope the weather was a bit better for the final leg. It will be very interesting to see what the speeds were for this years run.
Thanks for posting Tom!
Gene ... let's see now ... Montana 500, so that's 500 miles, time above 9 hours (forget about the 0.0508 hours that 3 mins & 3 secs equates to)
55.55 mph !!!!
The timekeepers might have a more accurate number.
PS see you in San Diego
(Message edited by adminchris on June 19, 2014)
Congratulations to all! Finishing is tough, not finishing is even tougher. Great finish MIke, Jillian, Tom. What a year!
I'm home from the run. I've done a few of these 500's and this had to be one of the coldest and wettest on record. The Final leg was a photo finish with Jillian nearly passing Stormo at the end. Awesome group to learn from, this event should be on everyone's bucket list.
My car didn't get done this year so I want to thank Tom who loan me an awesome car & the Tuesday night guys at the Antique Auto Ranch for encouragement to run.
Wow! Jillian was off the winning time by only a minute and a half over the 500 miles. She can be very proud of her showing. Well, Mike Stormo can be proud too, but he's not as pretty.
Mike R. -- I know she's your wife, but I still think she's pretty.
Phone rings: "Brian, I am in the middle of snowstorm and I think there are Model Ts all around me...."
My father and son were hauling a semi load of piggies to CA out of Northern MT this week. Ended up in the middle of the racing in a snowstorm coming over a mountain pass. He was real impressed that you could drive that fast and work a hand operated wiper. He was very impressed with those fast enough to choose the no-wiper-at-all option. Enjoyed watching you all in the midst of terrible conditions. Apologies for anything that might have been dripping from the trailer.
What were the problems Sergio H,Gary Y and Gator W had?
Sergio dropped a valve keeper, Gary had to watch the World Cup and Gator got a crack in his oil pan.
A little more information. I didn't have access to the spreadsheet when I posted the first results.
|Name||Hometown||Miles||Total||Day 1||Day 2||Day 3||Avg. Speed|
|Mike Stormo||Davenport, WA||492||09:03:03||03:27:48||03:53:00||01:42:15||54.36|
|Jillian Robison||Valley Ford, WA||492||09:04:31||03:30:42||03:52:46||01:41:03||54.21|
|Tom Carnegie||Spokane Valley, WA||492||09:14:16||03:32:35||03:57:34||01:44:07||53.26|
|Dennis Powers||Odgen, Iowa||492||09:14:38||03:31:54||03:57:06||01:45:38||53.22|
|Garrett Green||Orange, CA||492||09:17:05||03:34:58||03:58:45||01:43:22||52.99|
|Mike Robison||Valley Ford, WA||492||09:23:22||03:36:38||04:03:20||01:43:24||52.40|
|Mike Cuffe||Erueka, MT||492||09:23:58||03:33:18||04:04:41||01:45:59||52.34|
|Dan Brown||La Porte City, Iowa||492||09:27:06||03:39:12||04:02:11||01:45:43||52.05|
|Rick Carnegie||Otis Orchards, WA||492||09:27:40||03:44:06||04:00:39||01:42:55||52.00|
|Bill Mullins||Spokane, Wa||492||09:32:23||03:47:28||04:00:05||01:44:50||51.57|
|Jamie Allen||Green Acres, Wa||492||09:45:36||03:45:44||04:09:50||01:50:02||50.41|
|Alex Sandy Watt||Sandy Eggo, CA||492||09:46:00||03:44:53||04:10:14||01:50:53||50.38|
|Dan & Dwayne Lukowski||Kansas City, Missouri||492||10:09:57||04:00:33||04:17:21||01:52:03||48.40|
|Andria Myers||Long Beach, CA||492||10:16:01||04:14:32||04:13:45||01:47:44||47.92|
|Ed Marshall||Burley, WA||492||10:23:51||03:54:23||04:35:43||01:53:45||47.32|
|Patrick Barrett||Raineer, WA||492||11:08:06||04:14:18||04:53:19||02:00:29||44.19|
|Sergio Hernandez||Belle Gardens, CA||462||09:42:00||03:36:58||04:18:28||01:46:34||51.75|
|Gary Yeager||Cheney, WA||190||06:10:00||04:26:15||01:43:45||00:00:00||42.82|
Way to go Mike Stormo !!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Tom for posting the results. An average of 54.36 MPH is very impressive. Do you have a record of your tope speed reached? To keep up an average of 53 some of those down hill runs must be fast. Maybe I can make it next year??
That speed is especially impressive when you remember that the pavement was wet much of the time. You guys (and gals) are crazy!!
When I was running the 500 I saw 70 on two different GPS. That was going down hill. I never saw over 60 on the flats. I saw 25 one time above Butte going up a very steep hill. That was the only time I ever had to go to low pedal.
Have you never done any thing that was exciting?
I ran the 500 12 time and it was the most fun I ever had with a T. Some of the guys around here will only go across town once a month to the Ice Cream Parlor.
This is what happens if you win in the 500. They looked inside the differential with a bore scope for correct bearings, checked the gear ratio, looked in the transmission, checked the head, stroke and piston height as well as pulled the pan. I'm new to this and was impressed! This was a no B.S. post run inspection. It was also great that the Libby Ford dealership allowed the use of their shop. Great event. PK
The part on this lap was I believe was 35 miles. I caught up with another driver and we raced fender to fender for the 35 miles. Neither of us could outrun the other. The next pit stop was in kind of a ghost town. When we flagged in they gave us a tie because the timers could not figure who was ahead. It had been a air force town but they had left. The only business in town was two bars. We gassed up at the bars and paid the bar tender. The town was right on the Idaho border. Mike Walker, do you think that is not fun, try it!!!! You might like it.
Question, The speeds you guys average are way above what the T was made to go. I assume that all the T's have wire wheels? Is there anything done to the steering to improve handling? I know I get over 40mph with mine and she's all over the road. How do you guys keep them straight and not wandering back and forth?
Mostly wire wheels but some wood also.
Steering has to be stock. If your car wanders check for any looseness and for correct caster. It should run straight down the road.
Why does the fuel line go up on the cream colored roadster?
So, did the top 3 pass inspection ?
Dave H., you seem to be getting a might critical in your old age !
were the top 3 all 27 roadsters?
Anthony, no #1 was a 1927, #2 was a 1924, #3 was a 1926.
Anthony J Marino
The line is turned up to prevent seeping from the shut off valve while disconnected from carb.
Bear in mind that this was at the lowest elevation in Montana, some of it at around 2000 feet. Most of the other races have been run at 4-8,500 feet. You T will run out of air pretty quick when the air is thinner. Also hot air is thinner. This was cold wet air which is good for running hard and fast. Even Stormo probably wouldn't be as fast if they had been going over some of the mountain passes they have gone over years before.
Anybody who thinks they really know how to tune a T and make it run fast needs to put one together and show up. Lots of guys have come with a "hot" T to show the local farm boys how to do it. It's fun to watch 'em when they get left in the dust. =) If you have never seen these cars run, put it on your bucket list.
Amthony, the fuel line goes up so that it won't drip while it is disconnected from the carb.
I think the number one handling thing is that most of the T's, and all of the top T's have tubular hydraulic shocks. I think that this is the number one point of safety on a T. Even more important than good brakes.
By the way, my congratulations to Miss Jillian, who has been doing this for several years and placed 2nd this year, losing out to Mike Stormo by only a few seconds over 500 miles and several days. She ALWAYS looks better than Stormo even if she isn't quite as fast as he is. That is Miss Jillian's pink and black car.
It's amazing that Stormo beat her because he is carrying a LOT more weight up the hills than she is. (Stormo will get me for that comment!)
Bill beat me to it. What Stan says about elevation is correct. The next fastest run (I think) was held in Thompson Falls in 2008 on some of the same roads. On that run I averaged over 54 mph and lost!
Regarding the tubular hydraulic shocks, are they restored period parts, or are modern equivalents allowed?
I would love to see pictures of the shocks and how they are mounted if someone could post them, thanks.
Several months ago I crossed some railroad tracks at too high a speed (I was trying to get a run for a long hill coming up) and nearly got launched out of the seat when the springs rebounded.
Dave -- I'm all for excitement, but I try to avoid danger when I can. Driving 70 mph on wet pavement is not something I do in my modern car, let alone a Model T.
I admire all the folks who run the MT 500, and I admire the capabilities of their cars. The fact that they will run as fast as they do is impressive, but the fact that they can do that safely is a true testament to the skills of the folks who built those cars.
But I still think they're a little bit crazy.
Tom, What are tubular hydraulic shocks?
Try this thread for shock info.
Thanks, Tom. It's neat that you worked out a way for them to be 100% bolt-on with no added holes.
Jillian's speed secret revealed? I have seen the pink T, with a pink timer, if she isn't using these, she ought to.
I'm gonna try them in my 26 on a club tour tomorrow.
Congratulations to Mike !! You've been trying for a win for years ! And congratulations to all the others for their terrific times. I really enjoyed reading the entire shock absorber thread you gave us above, Tom. Just can't imagine maintaining those incredible speeds in a mostly stock Model T under those horrible weather conditions. But I'm getting closer to coming to MT to run in the tourist class with either a tudor or centerdoor. And for my Spokane friends: When are ya'll gonna get Harvey's '14 touring on the road?
George, I sure hope you make it up some day. You know that we'll have a ton of fun. Harvey still has 34 rear ends he has to tear apart before he can get back to work on his 14.
Miss Jillian certainly needs some of those pink Firestone spark plugs!
Congratulations Mike and all the guys and gals!
Have a safe trip back and start getting ready for next year.
Are those timed legs between stops or do they include gas stops and what-not? You have to have one fast Model T to get an average speed of 54 mph.
I made the trip from Cleveland, Ohio to San Antonio, Texas (~1400 miles) many times, twice on a motor cycle, and never averaged better than 60 mph. That's straight through including gas, eat and potty breaks. But I can say I was rarely doing less than 70+ mph.
The average does not include stops.
Don't you think Dyna-beads reduce the need for shocks?
Shocks hold the car to the road,Dyna-beads reduce wheel/tire vibrations.
Jillian has posted some of her pictures and videos to Photobucket. Here is a video of her barreling along at 60 mph in a the middle of a rainstorm (which was nearly all of the time this year).
Here is the link to her photo's.
I've got 4 of those radioactive Firestone spark plugs. They glow in the dark at night.
Thanks for posting Tom. Kinda looks like you all ran the 500 on our side of the mountains !
Did all of you 3 top finishers pass final inspection ?
Yeah Steve, I felt for the speedsters who were touring with us with no tops. Most of them backed out after the first day and I didn't blame them. No problems in the tear down for a 1-2-3 sweep by the Spokane T club.
Can't say I blame them - been in that situation before in the Racer - kinda takes the fun out of it !
Congratulations to you all & your Club !
Some of us (speedsters) did day 1, rain in the morning and turned nice in the afternoon. Woke to 44 and steady rain on day 2 with a forecast that said cold rain all day and stayed inside. Cold and rain with no top or fenders is tends to dampen the fun a bit. Day 3 we were back out with a little wet but not bad. Real fun to watch these folks prepare for, run the race, and inspect at the end. Great folks even if they do routinely push the envelope more than I care to in a stock T. Did some touring before the run, beautiful area. Of course the clouds left the day after the race when we were on our way out so we could see better. We'll be back.
Congratulations to the Spokane Team! Hope a great time was had by all.
Thanks Mike. Walt I sure hope you do make it back for a run with nicer weather. It has rained before on the 500, but never like this year in my experience.
Tom - We'll be back. A good sign was when my wife said she would like to come back again when we were driving in the rain on Monday. She's a trooper.
Link to Libby, MT article.
The print article had a different picture.