Canadian origin, RHD, fork mounted headlights and 23" rims all round.
Dam!! wrong delivery address again!!!
I guess they didn't worry about messing up the paint!
Hey, Larry -- It's only a Ford!
Thank you for posting the photo. Yes it is a Canadian car. That same photo was published in the 1970s in a magazine published by Colonial Motor Co., of New Zealand. It also appears on page 22 of Roger Gardner’s book “Ford Ahead – A History of The Colonial Motor Company Limited” with the caption “Model Ts were shipped, one to a case, until 1921 and assembly was often done on the roadside. This 1915 model outside early Auckland Ford dealer, G. A. Haydon & Co.” When I last exchanged e-mails with Roger Gardner about the photo in 2011, they only had scans from the photo that was published in the magazine. I had asked about posting it etc. and he shared there was no problem or fee but requested we give credit to the Colonial Motor Company NZ Collection. If you have located an actual photo rather than one printed in a magazine, I know they would like to obtain a copy so they could put the higher resolution photo back into their collection. And of course folks like me would like a higher resolution scan ….
Note that is one of the photos we used as proof that Ford of Canada did use the fork mounted electric headlamps. I.e. clearly a new Ford with the fork mounted electric headlamps. And of course along with many other photos etc. where Canadian Fords were sold and shipped – this one was clearly from the factory and no what the owner had installed them after the purchase etc.
For Larry – I’m sure you already know that originally the wheels would have been bolted to the side of the crate and not against the body. Below is a photo from the forum ( I apologize – I didn’t save the entire posting so I do not know who to say thank you to or the link to take you to the thread. My file is dated Mar 12, 2011.) It is also a 1915 Canadian touring. And it shows how the wheels were secured to the sides of the crate. My notes say it also has fork mounted electric headlamps. If someone has the link handy please add it so we will have it again if needed later.
You can see a similar photo of a 1913 touring in a crate on page 143 of Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford.”
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Hap, you never cease to astound and impress me. I always learn something from your posts and your delivery is second to none.
I don't mean to diminish in any way the rest of the posters here of course but you got a way of tying it all together in one neat little package of information.
I scored it off the internet. There was no mention of the Colonial Motor etc. I am stickler for maintaining donation integrity; if it was attached I would of included it.
Great to know it is captured in our system, we know when & where, and with Hap!!!
Here you are Hap-
Thank you for the encouraging words. I know so many folks share the information the have about the Fords and because of that we all are better off.
Thank you for the link to the museum. I sent them a note suggesting they change the circa 1910 to circa 1915 - 16 as I could not determine if the headlamps had brass rims or not. Sometimes the paint will reflect in a similar way. But while I was looking at the photo again, it clearly does have the bulb horn -- which is a strong indicator it is a 1915 model. Why? The Nov 1, 1916 Canadian Price List of Parts page 52 has the electric headlamps listed for 1915-1917 but it only has the electric horn listed for 1916-1917. So I will send them a second note with the refinement of 1915 year model. Does anyone know if any 1915 model year cars arrived in calendar year 1914 to Australia? I suspect they may have -- but I don't know.
Again, thank you to everyone for helping us gather additional information (puzzle pieces) and helping us to tie them together so we can see the larger picture better.
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That is unlikely. The US Ford assembly plants did not get that body style until late February 1915. No doubt Canadian and therefore Australian 1915 body style tourings would have been later than that.
Duncan & Fraser Limited were still making and supplying 1914 flat firewall style bodies as late as mid 1915, as per this photo dated June 1915.Note the pinstriping on the finished body on the far right of the photo.
Photo courtesy of Ian Duncan Smith & The Duncan Family.
Thanks! I had forgotten about the slow start of USA production on the 1915 cars. I agree, if Ford of Canada followed the USA production schedule/change over it would be virtually impossible for that to have happened. 1915 would be the most likely date for the photo of the bulb horn car in the packing crate in Australia shown earlier in the thread.
I have seen one 1915 style touring listed on the official Ford Australia site as a 1914. That was about 7 years ago and it was probably just mislabeled. But Ford Canada sometimes introduced changes earlier than the USA, for example they had the side entrance 1904 Model C Ford before the USA adopted them. They had the slant windshield and one-man top approximately 2 to 3 years (depending on when it was introduced) before the USA. And if you look on page 380 of Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” you will see a prototype 1926 coupe that was most likely assembled in Canada. Why? It has the Canadian style loose lug 21 inch wheels with the holes for the special Canadian 21 inch rim tool. It also has the Canadian style horn button. And it is also shown in the Ford Canada archive photos. I would like to see a higher resolution photo and see if the hub caps have Made In Canada or the radiator shell. And of course other times Canada production used parts that were discontinued in the USA – such as the ribbed transmission pedals that ended during 1915 USA production but continued well into the 1920s in Canadian production. And many changes were made around the same time.
Thank you so much for the date on the photo! Another very strong indication that they were not yet selling the 1915 style cars. But what about the ones imported from Canada as complete cars? Do you have any additional documentation on when they began the 1915 style? I don’t think it would have been in Jan but I wonder when it started?
Again, thank you all so much for helping us better understand the history of the cars.
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Speaking of bulb horns, the record of changes talks about 10,000 electric horns being used in 1915. That record is recorded by Bruce in the encyclopedia as follows:
OCT 16 Acc. 575, Box 19, Ford Archives
Electric horns specified for all 1916 cars. Notes that 10,000 electric horns were used in 1915 but the wording is such that there may have been more.
NOV 15 Acc. 78, Box 1, Letter, Ford Archives
All steering assemblies being shipped with horn button and wiring.
The way I read this is consistent with the fossil evidence. I would like to hear how early any documented car is that can be found with an electric horn. I would also like to hear how late into the 1916 model year any car can be documented with a bulb horn.
My observation is that very few 1916 Model T's had electric horns early in the model year, at least they don't have horn buttons or evidence of same on the steering columns. Perhaps there was a period of time when the cars came without horns?
Image property of The Henry Ford Museum:
The February 1915 edition of the Canadian Ford Times shows the 1915 body styles in it. So it appears the time line for USA and Canada was probably the same.
Peter -- thank you for the data point about the 1915 body style in the Feb 1915 Canadian Ford Times. That was actually earlier than the USA Ford Times -- ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm that states: "APR 1, 1915 Ford Times
First pictures of the new 1915 Touring and Roadster." Can you easily tell if the photo in the Canadian Ford Times is a USA or Canadian car? Also, can you tell if it is an actual photo or an artist illustration (which they often drew from a photo).
Royce -- I think that would be a great item for us to find additional information about -- both fossil and written. I would recommend one of us start a new thread on that. I'll try to do that later this week or if you or someone else gets to it sooner that would be great also.
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Hap, the earliest advert., that I have found that mentions the 1915 style scuttle, and electrics is in this June issue of 'The Queenslander'
Naturally, it is quite possible that in N.S.W., or Victoria the 1915 cars arrived earlier than that.
That would be an interesting display to recreate at the museum, an open crate with a new T ready to be assembled inside.
This photo I have posted before, but it does give us a reference point for 1915's in South Australia. This car was sold new and delivered on 2nd June 1915, engine number C21160, and registered in South Australia #5739 to Captain E.F. Playford, uncle of Sir Thomas Playford (later a State Premier). Note the 1914 style rear mudguards. Through this forum and other Canadian 1915 owners we have found the 1914 style rear guards were used until around C23,000. The non factory pin-striping was probably added by the agents, Duncan & Fraser Ltd.
Photo courtesy of Sporting Car Club "Motoring History Book No. 8" & M. Playford.
We also know when the first sedan arrived in Adelaide too, in May 1915. Please see the thread on this topic:
I agree that a shipping display would make a neat addition to the museum. I know they are always working to make improvements etc and that Jay, and many volunteers are continuing to work hard every week. They may not see the change from day to day but for those of us that are not close enough to visit and/or volunteer very often when they post an update we see lots of change. I am looking forward to reading what's new in the "Vintage Ford" or on the forum. And of course for additional items to be added, they may need additional space – at least that would be my initial guess.
Thank you for the looking and sharing the earliest Australian advertisement for the 1915 style features you have found so far is the June issue of 'The Queenslander.' And also for reminding us that in other parts of Australia they may have arrived earlier or later.
Your Feb 1915 “Canadian Ford Times” may be earlier than the first 1915s arriving in Australia, New Zealand etc. I hope we can find some additional data points about when the 1915 style cars began to arrive.
Comparing the photo of the 1914 style bodies taken Jun 1915 with the photo and information of the 1915 style touring # engine number C21160, and registered in South Australia #5739 that was sold Jun 2, 1915, it would look like that was a time frame of overlap when both styles were available new in Australia. Hopefully we can find out more about approximately how long the overlap lasted. I.e. Was Jun the first 1915 style or a month or two earlier? And was Jun the end of the 1914 style bodies or were they continued for several additional months?
Again thank you to everyone for their help in find new information or for pointing us to information that was previously posted but that adds to our understanding of what may have occurred during this time frame.
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