1911 Torpedo / Open Runabout windshield dimensions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1911 Torpedo / Open Runabout windshield dimensions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Saturday, June 28, 2014 - 09:45 pm:

All of the usual vendors sell windshields for the 1911 Torpedo / Open Runabout, but some say the windshield they sell for the application is 12-3/4 top and bottom, and other say it's 13-3/4 top and bottom. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who can verify which one is correct. I've been unable to find an answer on my own.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Art Wilson on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 02:16 am:

Mine measures 13-3/4" from the divider to the bottom edge of the brass tubing.
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 12:47 pm:

Thank you Art. That verifies what I was thinking since the overall height of the windshield is already lower due to how the lower half is angled back. It would make it lower yet if it were the shorter of the two options.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 08:58 pm:

My top section is 12.75" total including the framing. The bottom section is 14.75" total including the framing. This may or may not be right. I do know that the lower mounting of the vertical brace is in the correct location in relationship to the front body bracket. In the photo, the brace may not appear to be perfectly vertical, but it is parallel to the front dash and the rear back of the seat. Please note that while my car has many original parts, the body is not, it is one of the very early Rootleib body's form many years ago. I'm just posting the info on my car for what it's worth. One comment I will make is that when you check the illustrations in the Ford brochures showing the Open Runabouts, if you measure the lengths of the sections of the windshield, they indicate that the upper section is shorter than the lower section.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 10:11 pm:

Very interesting Roger. I was thinking I had read somewhere awhile back that both upper and lower halves were equal. What you describe, I've seen listed as, "11-12 open car" but T/OR windshields are still listed separately.

In the factory illustrations you posted, note the relationship of the support to the hand brake and pedals between the square tank and round tank models. There must be a lot of artistic license there. Never noticed that before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 10:14 pm:

I checked my Torpedo, which I believe is about a May 1911, as it has the closed valve engine (if that makes a difference). Including the windshield frame, both upper and lower sections are 12.75 inches. Mine has an original body and original windshield. I included a photo showing full windshield and one of the top section measurement, but can't seem to upload the bottom measurement photo, but it's the same 12.75 inches. If you need additional measurements, I'm happy to provide them.

Hope this helps.

full windshield view
Upper section measurement


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 10:17 pm:

Here's the photo of the bottom measurement

bottom section meaurement


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 10:38 pm:

Well, now it's getting good -- we have one of each!

Les, does yours have a manufacturers tag on it? I'm guessing Rands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 12:07 am:

Walter,

I went out and looked and my windshield does not have a tag, nor do I recognize a spot which looks like one fell off of. I know there were (3) suppliers used in '11 "Rands, Automatic, and Vangard", but don't know if all three suppliers were used on Torpedos. I honestly don't know which one I have,nor do I know how to tell them apart. I'm glad to post more photos if someone can tell me what to look at to determine which brand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Art Wilson on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 02:17 am:

Walter,
The information that is being provided about the windshields is very interesting.
My 13-3/4" windshield is a new reproduction so I wouldn't put much weight on it being correct.
Les,
Could you show some detail pictures of the deflector that fits between the two windshield halves?
Thanks,
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 08:33 am:

My windshield is an original but has no tag on it nor markings where there would have been a tag. My car is a bitsa made up from early parts but was never a complete original car. I really don't know if it is the correct windshield for a Open Runabout. I've had several knowledgeable people tell me that it is correct and other credible guys say the panels were of equal size. Knowing that Ford often used different parts form various suppliers during the early production runs, maybe??? both are correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 09:40 am:

Les, perhaps if you show a photo of the hinge, that might reveal the manufacturer. I think it unlikely that Automatics were used on any T/OR's because it would have to be a completely restyled latch to accommodate the angle. At least with all the ones I've studied I've never seen an angled Automatic.

Art, I have a really good photo of the deflector on the Open Runabout that sold at the Hershey RM Auction last year. I'm not savvy enough to size it down to post, but if you get me your email address I'd be happy to send it direct. I'd be more interested in seeing Les' as I'm certain the one at the auction was a reproduction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Monday, June 30, 2014 - 10:20 pm:

It occurred to me that several of the period shots I've saved off the web show cars with their windshields folded. Sitting back at an angle like it is, I think the top half will always appear a little shorter than the bottom, but on some it seems to be more so than others. There may very well have been a variety.

(My preview shows only two photos, but I uploaded five. I suspect they are too big to post. Sorry.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 01:52 am:

Got home from meeting late. I'll try and get some photos of the deflector and of the hinges of my windshield tomorrow. By reading the other post, maybe these windshields never had tags?

Anyway, I'll get those photos tomorrow....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 04:29 am:

Les,
Can you give us the Serial # of your Torpedo please
-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 08:38 am:

I've seen original 1910 Rands windshields with tags. They probably just fall off when the solder lets go, or they get damaged and the owners remove them. I can't imagine the manufacturer of a quality piece like that not putting their name on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 10:24 pm:

Okay guys, here's some more information (sorry about the delay).

My torpedo is serial # 60432. Checking Bruce's book, it appears the number was stamped June 29, 1911, so I have a late Torpedo (closed valves).

I found the manufacturer's name on the hinges of my windshield, though it's been polished so much, it's almost gone. I have an "Automatic" windshield. It appears they stamped the name on the outside of both hinges and there was no tag soldered on the frame.

I attached the requested photos:
First- the brass deflector between the sections
Second- the remaining visible "AU" from the name automatic
Third- the Automatic patent information (what remains on the hinge
Fourth- serial number.

Maybe equal or non-equal section measurements was dependant on who built the windshield?
windshield deflector
automatic name on hinge
automatic patent stamp on windshield
torpedo serial number


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 08:53 am:

Thanks for the additional photos. I had taken the previous mention of Automatic to mean Mezger Automatic, not knowing Automatic was a brand unto itself.

That diamond pattern on the interior panels is interesting. A variation of that was used on some pre-T applications. I've never seen it on any of the restored Torpedos I've studied, but that's likely a detail easily lost along the way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 12:03 am:

Is not Mezger Automatic and Automatic the same company? I'm asking this as if they're separate, that puts a fourth windshield supplier in the mix. Again, I don't know, so I'm asking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 07:09 am:

Unless Mezger had two different hinge styles, I've only ever known them to manufacture the windshield that has the trick lever-latching hinge with external spring. Attached is an ad that was posted in a previous thread showing such:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 09:22 am:

I think that the Automatic windshield used a Rands set of hinges.
I'd think John Regan would know about this. In my research of the torpedo's I have John's post on this subject from about ten years ago.
The hinges on my torpedo are Rands and that was correct from what I remember from John's comment. Look at the car on my profile .
John has an open runabout.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 12:22 pm:

Thanks Les for Serial# I thought I recognized car.I was wrong.

Does anyone know who owns Serial#63849 ?

-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts on Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 11:09 pm:

You may have recognized my car. It's on the cover jacket of the book - "From Here to Obscurity". I forgot the name of the owner of my car when that photo was taken. He lived in CA., so if some of you know who that was, you would have more information on my car, than I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, July 04, 2014 - 12:13 am:

hi Les,
The Car I was thinking about was owned by Roy Collins in Brunswick Ohio (south of Cleveland) Roy Owned 2 Torpedo's One was Red Serial#63849 the other was Green
The Green one was an Open Valved one Serial# 47272
I don't think Roy is with us anymore? Its also been 16 years since I was there Nice cars!

-Don


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