I am going to mount used gears on new drums, but I see marked wear on the original low gear teeth. In addition the teeth seem to be flared out so that when the reverse bushing slides over them it is very tight, but when the drum reaches its running position it is overly loose due to the excessive bushing wear.
The gear looks blue in the picture but isn't really.
The replacement low gear I have shows pitting on the gear teeth and the bearing area.
The original reverse gear shows wear on the teeth.
How does all this look to experienced eyes? Are these gears usable? Thanks.
Eric, It will also depend on what you are wanting to have when completed. For example, if you are building a TT truck to drive in a parade or two or around the farm, the gears are useable . If you want to have a good somewhat smooth running car for limited short touring around town. I would at least replace the bushings, and hand dress the teeth with a fine file to remove the "burrs" and glass bead only the teeth.(no sandblasting). If you want a good dependable, quite as possible, tour car for higher road speeds, I would either replace with new drums and gears or get a better set of used ones. Good luck with the project .....
Eric, I just re read your post. You said that you are getting new drums. I would not use any of these gears for new drums. They cost too much to put very worn gears on. I would look for a better set of gears. There are plenty of good gears around with cracked drums for you to choose from. Sorry for missing the "new drum" part of your question.
Donnie, why no sand blasting? PK
Those are far from "very worn" gears. In fact, they look very good. However, the tooth surfaces in your top 2 photos show the "non-pressure", (i.e. unloaded, unworn), side of the gear teeth. Those surfaces are not critical. Show us the opposite tooth faces, (as you did in photo #3).
Unless we see something surprising on the other side of the teeth, you're not likely to find a much better used gear.
They might be a little noisy, but will give you good service.
I would venture to guess a T spends better than 99% of it's running time in High Gear. The gears do not come into play when in High Gear. It may be a little noisy in Low, Reverse, and Neutral, but straight cut gears are noisy anyway.
Thanks for your input Donnie and Jerry.
Here are views of taken from the other side of the two low gears I have.
The transmission has always been a little noisy so I am not shooting for extremely silent operation. I do want to make sure there are not any other problems that the pitting or gear wear might cause. If these gears are serviceable I will go with them.
Donnie, I understand there must be a lot of good used gears available in the USA but not here. The rent is relentless and it puts the T behind all the household activities. Shipping parts to Spain can double or triple the typical cost in the USA. I can't even imagine what it must be like for our members in Australia, it's probably even worse. This transmission repair has turned into a full fledged restoration and I need to stay thrifty or this job will never get done.
Please excuse the harangue, but that's the background for this project.
I sincerely appreciate everyone's input!
I think either low gear should work o.k. You may want to measure the diameters, where the bushing will ride, to see which is worn the least. The one that shows some rust pitting should be o.k. as long as you polish the bearing area to get some of the roughness knocked down. You will never remove the pits but if you get it generally smooth it should be alright. The rusty one has the better gear.
Either way, you'll need to file down the burrs that you mentioned that prevent easy assembly/disassembly.
Do you have access to an O.D. grinder or a lathe?
Eric, I did not realize you were not from the US. That changes things some. The gears are useable. There is no major wear, but the pitting will lower the life of the gears. But as stated above, most of the driving life is in high gear with no gears turning. I do not understand the "high gear" term as it is straight thru direct drive in high. I have seen worse used with good results, It will just be a little noisy. I would still opt for new bushings and hand dress the teeth with a fine file, Just the "burr" formed by the wear, not the wear surface, and then glass bead them to knock of the "glaze" By hand dressing the teeth you are making it where they will slide thru the new bushings without damaging them. Pat I do not like to use sand or black beauty(slag), because I feel it is too abrasive, and sand will penetrate the pores of the metal somewhat, If not very carefull to clean the parts very well with hot soapy water there may be some sand left on the parts to cause wear later on. Glass beads are not as aggressive and will clean up very well. I just use the glass beading to give a chance for a new wear patter to form. You are only talking less than half a .001 of an inch and it sometimes lessens the gear noise. These are my opinions formed from doing a lot of "poor boy" repair jobs thru the years. Others may disagree, some may agree, but that is how I would do it if it was mine and on a budget. Best of luck with the project,
slightly off topic--- did you import your T to Spain or did you find one there ?
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I don't know how I got along before I discovered this Forum!
I am not a machinist (although I would like to be) so practically everything will have to go to a machine shop. Smaller jobs like dressing the teeth to get the burrs off I can do myself, thanks Donnie.
John, I imported this car. The Model T has always fascinated me. I "met" my car when I was 17. Being quite the bookworm I had read a lot about how the T works, so I climbed in and started driving. It worked pretty much like the books said it would. The rest has come from experience. My old car buddy, who was like a second father to me, had bought it in 1965 in Kansas City, where I was born and raised. My wife is Spanish and we moved here many moons ago. Meanwhile the car sat in a garage in Kansas and I would drive it during my annual family visits. When the garage space was no longer available I made the monumental decision to bring the car over.
This car was painted with a roller and a brush, not so bad looking from a distance but it really deserves a full restoration. I rebuilt the engine 25 years ago but did practically nothing to the transmission which seems to be well worn out so its time has finally come.
I find the T to be very comfortable and somehow familiar. Maybe from a previous life? Who knows...
Eric, a couple of things not mentioned. The 'flared' section of the gear is that part on which the bush does not run, so it is not worn. This needs to be dressed down. I have done this with an oilstone, as the gears are very hard. Once this is done you can ream the new bush for a better fit on the worn section, as you do not have to ream it to go over the unworn part of the gear.
I would rather use the gear without the rust pitting where the bush runs.
Others have indicated that once in high gear, the gears about which you are concerned are not in play.
Hope this helps.
allan from down under.
Some will tell you that cars that were painted with a brush or roller are some of the best to restore. While it is a crude method of application, the thick coats of paint have protected the metal through years of neglect.
Actually Hal, the crude paint application was done after the neglected years were over for this car. That was its first restoration, ha ha. It has been kept in a garage almost every day since then but it hasn't been babied. It been driven in the rain or snow, whatever was falling when I had the chance to drive it. Apart from some surface oxidation under the fenders this car does not have any rust on it so it looks like the thick paint has been a source of protection.