Just picked up yet another style of AUSTRALIAN wide bodied T.
This car seems is an earlier year than the last car found in South Australia .Note different style of windscreen mount &fender design.
ANY CLUES GUYS WHO IS THE BODY BUILDER FOR THIS CAR ?
Body.pdf (97.3 k)
Bob, Appears to be a Propert/Smith and Harvey. (same builder) 1920 -1924
Is there any evidence of a name plate being anywhere?
No Peter --- I PICKED IT UP IN THE KINGAROY AREA OF QUEENSLAND
Nice lines to that one Bob. Is it a cut down tourer? the side panel behind the door looks to terminate rather suddenly.
I like those frameless windscreens. The earlier Duncan and Fraser cars had similar ones but in one piece.
Allan from down under.
Great find Bob. High radiator, concealed door hinges, looks about 1924 or so to me just looking at the photos. Any more information Bob?
Hi Allan & David,
The car was a roaster and had been cut into a ute at some stage . I had a roaster back that was cut from a DUNCAN &FRAZER body in stock.
On arriving home with the car i tried the back i had and would you believe it fitted as though it had been cut from the car[note body sitting on car in below pictures.
Bob, great find and amazing the roadster back you had fits well. Wonder how similar it is to the original roadster back the car had? Was the car originally painted white?
Hi Constantine --
The colour has certainly been a very light colour -- WHITE or GREY ?
Fantastic find! Even more so because you have a back end that needed a permanent home, and it fits.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
On checking around It's looking as though it could be a PEEL BODY which were made in Brisbane .
Pictured below is a PEEL BODIED CAR . Note fenders are also the same as mine.
If this be correct it proves the old theory that DUNCAN & FRAZER in Adelaide were sending their panels to other body manufactures around Australia.
Congratulations on another great find! From the photos I cannot tell if it is a 1917-1923 style low black radiator or the later 1924-1927 style high radiator. Also, when you have a chance, please post some photos showing the rear of the car without the rear deck. I'm trying to visualize where / how it attaches the rear of the front seat.
Note in at least one case the body and turtle deck were separated for years and then actually reunited to the same car (possibly on new chassis from what I remember). I'm a little surprised that the rear deck from one company would fit so nicely on another company's body. Any chance that the rear section might have been from the same body maker and not from Duncan and Fraser?
If you know for sure that the rear section is not from that body or body maker, I would encourage you to continue to look and hopefully find which body maker produced the body (Peter suggested Propert/Smith and Harvey above). And once that is know, to try and locate photos and hopefully eventually a rear section. Or to have the rear section built based on the photos. Of course if the rear section fits well it also might be able to be modified to look like the original rear deck. The 1929-1931 or so Model A Ford station wagon owners have a known cowl section from one of the other Model A bodies that can be successfully modified to look and function like the original station wagon cowl. (It needs some welding, shaping etc. -- but it is very close and is very authentic looking when finished).
Again, great find!
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I missed your last posting about the Peel body. If the rear deck is the same – that would be great. Recommend you have some measurements taken, of the rear area as well as other areas to confirm they are the same for the two bodies. Also the time frame of the bodies may make a difference -- i.e. if one is a low radiator and the other is a high radiator -- there might be some differences.
Again, great find!
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Propert body still appears to be the correct one.
here is an original photo showing their "family Five" touring. I don't have a photo of a roadster unfortunately.
Same windscreen, same guards, same valance, enclosed hinges, wood running boards (on Bob's- no running boards, possible because they were wood).
Still any other suggestions appreciated.
Also here is a picture of the Peel roadster with roof up. This car is very original. Back is different.
The big problem we have identifying what is what is that lots off body builders were involved, and a large trade in replacing old for new bodies existed. Also some builders had installed presses to shape body panels which depending on how they were then cut from the pressing were able to be adapted to several shapes so a roadster rear section could be sourced and adapted.
From my observations only!!! Duncan and Fraser standard roadsters had a detachable turtledeck, attached to the rear panel, which in turn was the same panel as the tourers. Hence these roadsters are the same width as the back seat of the tourers.
The Duncan and Fraser special coachbuilt wide body roadsters had the turtle deck integral with the body, one long panel from the door right back to the rear corner. You can see this in David Chanrtell's photos that he posted recently of the car I have purchased. I do not know of any D&F special roadsters with detachable turtle decks. Indeed, one car in our club has been made back into a roadster, after the back was CUT off to convert it to a pickup.
Just a bit more detail for the puzzle.
Allan from down under.
Keep in mind the red Peel Bros Roadster was originally a Tourer when it was found. The back half was fabricated by the owner when he restored it as a Roadster. He may have built it from pictures or patterns but I can say without doubt that the rear of the red roadster was homebuilt.
Thanks for letting us know about that Warwick,
When I spoke to the owner years ago he assured me it was all original, a common problem here, owners often try and make out their cars have not been changed when they have been to pretend they are something else usually to make it an earlier car so worth more!!!
This bulbous type roadster back is common for a lot of 1920's Fords and others in Australia.
The bulbous roadster back Bob built for his 1913 Duncan & Fraser bodied "deluxe" roadster. It is not, nor never was, made by Duncan & Fraser and is not correct for the South Australian coach builder.
Hi Peter. Did Davies & Fehon ever make a wide bodied car like DUNCAN & FRAZER ?
David --I was only trying to indicate the coincidence of the top curvature together with the width come side curvature profile of the body that was cut of the DUNCAN &FRAZER fitted near perfect to the profile of the car i just picked up.
Other words --Maybe it is not a coincident if it be that DUNCAN & FRAZER were supplying panels to other body manufactures around Australia.
I presume you mean a 3 person roadster, virtually all the post war Australian Roadster bodies were wider than is usual otherwise, Davies and Fehon/Davies and Davies definitely ( they were advertised as 3 passenger Runabouts) but the body of your above is definitely not a one of theirs.
Bob, I wouldn't consider some of the components of the 1918 Roadster NRS018 typical of a Peels Limited Car, I have a 1918 Peels original car, and there are many things that appear different between the cars, I believe that some of the parts wouldn't or may not have been in standard factory production in 1918.
Maybe it is a DUNCAN &FRAZER bodied car.
Pictured is the lower windscreen to cowl filler from a Duncan & Frazer body shown to fit exactly onto the cowl of this unknown bodied car.
Duncan & Fraser have specific methods. How is the cowl fastened to the firewall?
Bob, Can you post a close up picture of the windscreen posts and glass brackets. Do the underside of the doors have any numbers stamped into the wood? Numbers would be about 3/8" in height maybe covered in paint.
Will do Chris.
Bob, the filler you picture shows the two holes which co-incide with the ears on the cast brass pillars used. The screen you show is not wide enough.
Nor is it fitted as I believe D&F screens were fitted. They had brass pillars affixed to the outside of the cowl with two bolts through them. The later cars, as seen in David's posting on my recent purchase, were also bolted to the outside of the cowl. These were of different construction to the earlier ones. They are more like 26-7 pillars in the way they are made.
All D&F cars I know of came with shallow S shaped wingnuts at the pillars to allow the screens to be opened.
Others may have more thoughts on these.
Allan from down under.
To get that wooden filler piece of the1913 D&F car i had to remove the[ swept outward ]outside mounted brass pillars.
You noted how the pillars attached to the wooden filler with the two extending lugs that show their imprints into the filler wood .
I'm not sure how i am going to stop those long cast park lamp mounts from breaking as i have a few of them and they all have the arm cracked of and naturally the park lamp would have gone with it.
Note simular swept out style of windscreen pillar on this car.
The car in the photo with rego. #9193 is a Tarrant from Melbourne (Victoria). Totally different animal altogether.
I think I understand what Bob is alluding to. Bob is alluding that his body MAY of come from Duncan & Fraser in Adelaide (South Australia) and supplied in some fashion to Sydney and possibly had a windscreen fitted. Whilst I too am very, very sceptical of this I can say that Duncan & Fraser had very specific coachbuilding methods and techniques gleaned from my 35 years of studying their coach, carriage, buggy, horse drawn & electric trams and automotive body building by this company.
So I am asking once more. Bob, how is the cowl mounted to the firewall? Plus, where is the cowl joined? How are the doors made? What is on top of the doors?
Bob, the design for the inclusion of sidelight brackets was flawed. Most broke in service. Only the later bun type sidelights were accommodated on them as far as my observations go. Once the sidelights were deleted when the starter/generator were introduced, the bracket arm was deleted.
Allan from down under.
I am not alluding to anything--I just happened to have that picture in my file of a car that shows clearly the sweep out style of the windscreen pillar on my 1913 car. The previous pictures were to show that the windscreen wooden filler from my 1913 car fits the curve exact on this just found car.
AS FOR THE COWL STYLE OF MOUNTING--It is clear in the picture of the car that the cowl is not attached to anything and probable departed from whatever many years ago.
Hi Chris , I have your required information. I will E/Mail you direct and save al the----.
Looks like a Propert Body to me
First, thank you to everyone who has responded with suggestions etc. so far. And if anyone has any information on the different body companies possibly sharing some parts (i.e. we see a very similar running board protector on many cars), panels, etc. we would like to know more about that.
Below is a short update on Bob’s new wide body runabout. He was able to get the door open and attached to the body was the door sill plate shown below:
Below is a slightly different plate [rectangular, letters a little different etc.] but the name Builders Sweeney’s Motor Works Designers and the address Merivale Street, South Brisbane are all the same.
John Page posted the photo of that plate at: : http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/388966.html?1379448671 . John, if you read this would you please confirm if it is a door sill plate or if it was located somewhere else on the car? The plate was on the red touring car shown below and again from the same thread.
John also pointed out that the photo posted by Dane Hawley earlier in the same thread also appeared to be a Sweeney similar to the touring above. Dane’s early photo is shown below:
But neither of the two touring cars appears to be a good match for Bob’s new find. I.e. the base of the windshield to cowl is different. The windshield is different (although they all have the hinges). The red touring has an extra bead on the body a couple of inches below the top of the body. The older photo of the touring does not appear to drop down as much going from the windshield to the door area.
A Google search for Sweeney’s Motor Works did not turn up many suggestions. But it did turn up one that currently is our best lead. At http://www.classicandsportscar.com/news/classic-car-events/ford-model-ts-swamp-aussie-seaside-town you can scroll down and see a photo of Steve Fleming’s black 1921 Roadster with the body made by Sweeney’s Motor Works of South Brisbane. A direct link to the photo is: http://images.cdn.classicandsportscar.com/sites/classicandsportscar.com/files/imagecache/News_lead_image/images/January2014/sf02.jpg I haven’t figured out if it is ok to repost their photo so I will refrain from doing that until I know it is ok. We have contacted Steve one of the photos he sent is shown below:
Steve is working with us to supply additional photos and possibly measurements so we can determine if the front half of Bob’s Sweeney runabout is the same style/shape/size as Steve’s car. If it is, then there is a good chance that the rear section of Bob’s car would have been the same as Steve’s car. We are hoping to find some addition photographs etc. that will hopefully document that Sweeney produced the same style runabout/roadster during the 1921-22 time frame. They could have changed with the 1922 model year but I am hoping they did not. And of course we still do not know for sure if the engine in Bob’s car was ever replaced or not so it might possibly be a different year than 1922. And we don’t know if Sweeney had several different styles during the same year as some of the other body makers did – i.e. standard and deluxe etc.
We have a lot more we need to research and compare. If anyone has additional information on the Sweeney Motor Works and their bodies, please let us know. I am hoping that there is some sort of local historical society in the South Brisbane area that maybe able to provide additional photos and/or information.
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Here is the plate on Steve's car under the passengers door.
And a view of the rear
I have researched Sweeney's when I did Peel's.
The exact correct name of the business is:
Sweeney's Motor Body Works Limited
This business was started on 22nd October 1924 (by Samuel G Sweeney and his wife Daisy, also share holders were the painter, trimmer, blacksmith, body builder, panel beater. Samuel & wife were the major shareholders. ( I have some of the staff names that would have built the cars) The business didn't operate long, my info gathered shows it was liquidated on 4 the March 1926. I have document evidence of these dates.
The business was located in 277 Merivale Street and also in 1925 another 2nd building located Stanley Sts. Sth Bris.
This would date all cars within this period.
Hope this is of interest.
I have been unable to find any other historical information at this time.
A bit more info for you.
Sweeney was in business before 1924. In 1921 he was operating with a business partner as Honeybone and Sweeney. They not only built car bodies but were also boats builders.
They fell out and Honeybone was taken to court by Sweeney
According to the newspapers they were first known as Honeybone and Sweeneys. The earliest advertisement I can find is 26th of March 1919.
Chris and Peter,
Thank you both for the additional information. I need to go back and review Peter’s excellent article on Australian body/Ford dealers in the Nov – Dec 1981 “Vintage Ford.” I don’t think Sweeney’s Motor Works or Sweeney's Motor Body Works Limited were mentioned. But there may be other good clues there.
Favor to ask. As you appear to live in or close to Brisbane, would you be willing to check and see if there is any additional information or photos available in a local “Historical Society” or other similar organization? Also when you have time if you could provide the reference for your 22 Oct 1924 to 4 Mar 1926 dates for the Sweeney’s Motor Body Works Limited. That way we will be able to include that in the data we gather and others in the future will be able to locate the original again, if they desired to do so.
I need to run to run to work, but I am looking forward to what we discover about the Sweeney cars and how Bob’s car fits into that information.
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Thanks for the update with the body tag. I came across these pics of you car from a previous owner.
Note the unusual wing nuts on the windscreen.
This is the same windscreen as in your car. I believe it is Sweeney. I have owned it for 35 years. Came from Bundaberg.
The black-smithed mounts would be internal like yours.
I have a Cowl from the same model as in the photo of the red Sweeny, Hap posted. The cowl has the same double reversed curve in the top and sides. look closely at the red car and you will see it. Very detailed and shapely. I put the post beside the cowl holes and the 2 mount holes line up perfectly. Note the red car has later eared nuts, the same as in all later Sweeney & most QML bodies.
Hi Mark , Sure looks the same as my car.Meaning that my ''wide bodied '' style car was not just a one of.
This appears to be the earliest of this style Sweeny windscreen from around 1919-20 for non starter cars with side lamps. Note the windshield frame wing nuts. has external mount.
This is the next style without the side lamp brackets with same wing nuts.
note same pin stripe as Bob's car. Same door curve.
Thanks Peter, yes I found him back as far as 1921 with Honeybone but assume the car Tag would only be made up and used when SGS started SMBW in 24,.
Hap, I do have some documents on Sweeney I will post but no photos to date ( after historical local research) But will let you know if anything comes up. There is a restaurant now where the cars were made!
Maybe Honeybone was the a boat builder and Sweeney only did car bodies. I also thought if the tag only said Sweeney it was after Honeybone, but it could be Sweeney had tags with his name as some of the T's appear to be before 1924.
still lots to find out!!
The next style appears to be Bobs with the internal mount.
Then we have the next generation of Sweeney with the start of the next style of Sweeney windscreen. Here I another pic of the red car of Ian's. not the more common later style windscreen nuts typical of QML / Sweeney
There are lots of changes in the Sweeney windscreen after the red car. U shaped post mounts and then long round threaded end mount. brass and alum bases. different heights and to cloud it all, QMA-QML had Sweeneys in their catalogues.
Bob, I should have recognized the car earlier. Sorry about the Propert side track.
Your car is unusual with the Australian fenders. Only other time I have seen them in Qld was a touring tub at Toowoomba swap 30 years ago which now is in Mackay.
I have learned something else tonight. What a great thread.I have never heard of Honeybone before, Sweeney many times, but never the Honeybone.
I think this car may be Steves car from way back when i got involved with it sale.
This rear end picture sure looks the same as Steves car
I didn't realize the yellow Sweeney roadster could be the Black one of Steve's Very easy to pick if you look insie the rear trunk (boot)
The car used to live here locally.
I did a bit of looking at the state library and street 3 years ago and came up with this as a rough location for the Sweeney Factory. Chris might be able to pin point the location even closer.
the State library is only 2 street blocks from this location. Peels were in the same street but harder to locate.
Been going through my photos. this could be the same body as Bob's. Not the best of photos but all I could find. Photo taken at Crows Nest Qld
Here is some data I roughly jotted down on the yellow roadster it check if it is the same car.
The most photos I have ever seen of Sweeney bodied Fords -- thank you all for sharing them and especially for Mark -- helping to put the windscreen changes in some sort of order.
I was also looking at the front motor mounts/spring hangers. Which cars had the U-bolts and which ones had the improved one piece clamp. USA cars transitioned to the one piece style in 1921ish ref page 324 Bruce McCalley's book "Model T Ford." I don't know when the Canadian cars (or for the Australian market -- chassis) transitioned or how long the transition took.
And I wonder how many if any at all of the cars in the photos had a Sweeney body replace an previous body? Do we have any information about if Sweeney sold primarily completed cars or bodies only?
Also the abbreviation QMA and QML -- would you please let us know what they stand for? Above it was used in a couple of sentences one of which stated, "....and to cloud it all, QMA-QML had Sweeneys in their catalogues."
Again, thank you to everyone for helping to gather this information!
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QMA = Queensland Motor Association , Ford Distributors for Queensland.
This later became QML = Queensland Motors Ltd. (1921???)
They also sold other makes like Fiat and Essex and same were also sold by dealers in some major towns.
It appears to me that QMA-QML bought Sweeney Cars or bodies for there upper market range. Bob's fenders are unusual but possibly an extra. Sweeney may have made unbranded bodies for the 1924-25 QML range that were stamped QML in the timber
Hap, A 1923 original chassis which resides near me still had the earlier 2 piece U clamps so it was a few years after the USA change. This car when found did not appear (including the motor) to have ever been apart.
Mark, Here is my car's Windscreen pillars, they look very much like the ones in your photos, They are fabricated steel with the bronze clamps, I would imagine they would have been made on site by the resident blacksmith to suit exact application, and the clamps a standard off the shelf item.
QML opened in 1927 in Montaque Road and claimed to be the first assembly line in Queensland, they were yes doing Ford & Fiat.
I thought QMA stood for Queensland Motor Agency
and QML Queensland Motors Ltd
If so Queensland Motor Agency changed to Queensland Motors Limited between Sept 1920 and Nov 1920.
Chris, do you have more information on the QML from 1927 you mentioned.
Thanks Chris. Nice car!
You are correct Peter, sorry. Looks like Ford Station Utility went for a few years. Started in 1918c. Initally the side lamps came off the front of the seat and not off the dash. You can just make out one of them in the shadow under the steering wheel. Also has the sloped single pain windshield.
Peter here is a picture of QMA and some details, It shows dignitaries and guests observing car assembly at Queensland Motor Agency, Montague Rd, South Brisbane in 1927. Sir John Goodwin, Queensland Governor, is on the left. The occasion was probably the opening of the firm's first assembly line. Car chassis are being assembled by hand on a very simple production line, from components imported from Britain. Locally made bodies will then be fitted. The vehicles in the background are all of British origin.
Peter, Peels was located right next to the Ship Inn hotel in Stanley street, the building is now gone due to Expo 88 revamp, I do have a picture of it before it was demolished. There is now walkways and a park there. If you are interested Walter Peel managed the business for quiet some time until his death, he was found dead in the basement of his workshop early one Saturday with his head next to an open gas valve. Their main claim to fame was being the NASH dealers up to I think 1950's.
Meanwhile Samuel Sweeney went on to be involved in Real Estate, I believe he owned and rented out a number of commercial properties.
Here is a picture of the Peels Limited building you may be able to make that name out on the building it's there if you look carefully.
Chris, 1927 is a few years after Ford took control of the Ford car assembly and sales.
Queensland Motors Ltd went on to be involved in Morris cars and White trucks. Mr GW Whatmore who was in charge of Ford distribution in Queensland continued on with the company when Ford Motor Co started in Australia.
Like Sweeney, Peel built bodies for Queensland Motors who then sold them ( Mark Herdman has more info than any of us and may be able to add more) Most of the Sweeney and Peels left have the QML plaque or a stamping on them as they were selling the cars. Here is Steve Flemings tag from the dash. Has your car got one?
Thanks Peter, My car is a Peels Car, it has the "Peels Limited" Brass etched name plate at each door similar to the Sweeney as posted above.
Here is another wide bodied Australian
What makes it so difficult to work out Australian bodies is they are so many simularites between different manufactures of bodies from all over Australia and so the confusion on Bob's Sweeney.
When it comes to the windscreen posts , the early Sweeney bodies pictured above are similar to your Peel. Note the Sweeny side lamp bracket comes straight forward and your Peel goes to the side. The wing nuts are different as well as the boss for the holes for the windscreen mounts.
Tarrant of Victoria made a similar bracket and so did Nettlefolds in Tasmania. Tarrant of Victoria is predominately one piece windshield (but not all).
Discussions like this is great, we all learn a lot from it.
Would love to see more pics of your Peel.
Thanks again for you pictures
Chris, and for anyone else following this thread.
Further to what Mark has said here is an extract from Hubert French's Report to Ford Canada in November 1924. He was visiting Brisbane Queensland to check on the Ford operations there.
"I have visited the body works of Peel Motors who are the Queensland distributors for the Nash car, I also visited the plant of the De Luxe Motors bodies Ltd. And the body plant of Queensland Motors. Lack of modern machinery inadequate premises, poor management reflect in the prices of the product of these various plants. By far the best plant is that operated by the Queensland Motors but even here no attempt is made towards continuous production of any standard model. I counted 16 different types of bodies all being manufactured on the one floor with all the resultant confusion and lack of economy that comes with it. All body plants permit the customer to make any changes in the body design that that particular customer may require, and it is not uncommon for a body to be made two inches wider or and inch longer with more or less head room to suit the whims of the buyer."
As information is sparse you can see how much of a problem it can be to find out what someone actually has when they find a Ford today and most of the other Australian States are the same.
Hi Hap. ,AFTER READING PETERS-CRIS's & MARKS INFO--How else can we confuse you?
Again, thank you to everyone for contributing a wealth of good information and even some humor.
For Peter, thank you for clarifying that in Australia the U-bolts on the front spring & engine mount were continued into 1923. I'll try to compare that to a Canadian and possibly Australian Ford Price List of Parts. I wonder how long the overlap period was when both styles may have been used? And thank you for the words from Hubert French's Report to Ford Canada. Clearly any customer could order any modifications to the bodies and for more money they would build whatever the customer desired.
For Chris -- you have a really sharp looking car. In addition to having a choice of colors, they had a choice of some very nice looking bodies to chose from "down under." In the USA, the 1918 tourings looked very much like the next 1918 touring.
Also Chris -- please confirm that the photo of the dignitaries and guests observing car assembly at Queensland Motor Agency, Montague Rd, South Brisbane in 1927.... The occasion was probably the opening of the firm's first assembly line. That the assembly line was for an English make and not a Model T Ford. From the photo and the caption, that is what I understand them to be assembling. But I would like to make sure I capture it correctly.
For Bob -- I believe you have some great information and leads. I suspect that Steve Fleming’s black 1921 Roadster will line up closely with the design and dimensions of your body. And that the read deck design of Steve's car would likely be the same for your car. I am hoping that one or more folks will be able to find some additional photos of the roadster bodied Ford that would confirm Sweeney continued the same style through 1924. Or if it did change, to help document when it changed. Although it sounds like if a customer wanted a 1921 style body and it was 1924, they could have the new body built as they desired. Also based on what we know so far, even though the Duncan & Fraser rear deck is approximately the right width, I suspect it will not turn out to be the overall correct shape the Sweeney used. Additional photos or information may be able to confirm or correct that hunch of mine.
Again, thank you to everyone for reading, adding etc. And if any additional information can be added, please do so.
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Hi Guy's --May as well confuse Hap some more .\
Here is a couple of other T's i owned way back .
ANYONE KNOW WHO MADE THESE BODIES ?.
The red Roadster is a Steenbhom. I have photographed quite a few features of that car.
This is my Steenbohm.
Hap that information regarding QMA is correct as came with the photo and is all I have.
Something old and something new, something slow something fast....both early and old and long lasting USA companies. Great
Regards Chris Holtum
Hap, the Duncan and Fraser roadster bodies, both the special wide bodies and the standard bodies are of a different design, which is much easier to construct. The side panels of the one piece wide bodied cars have no compound curves. The curve between the side panel and the top of the turtledeck is two dimensional. It does not curve upwards as it meets the back of the seat. The transition between the back panel of the turtledeck and the turtledeck lid also is a two dimensional curve. The only compound curve is where those two two dimensional curved panels meet at the rear corners, like the standard US T turtledeck.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Some QMA information
Some QMA information
Thank you for the additional information about QMA. Do you have any date information on when the photo/advertisement you posted above may have first appeared? While the date published does not mean it was the date the photo was taken, it does establish that the photo was taken before and not after the date of publication. And if you have a higher resolution scan of the T's that would be fantastic. We probably should start another thread to discuss / look at those.
Also if anyone reading this one has not stopped by the "Who made the Australian runabout" thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/464909.html?1406712041 (It is actually titled “Australia 1930” but we would still like to narrow down which builder may have produced it.) I stopped by this one again to look at how the read deck sections of the runabouts looked.
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R or S ADD for TURK.
From previous article on AUSTRALIAN BODIES'' . The rear end picture car has guards simular to an old car of mine pictured on trailer .It was suppose to be built in Victoria.