I'm looking to hear about others experience with a Warford aux transmission and 3:1 high speed gears? Im considering this combo in a speedster
The Warford with 4:1 rear gears makes a great combination for a Model T. How fast do you think you want to go in yours?
A Warford has an underdrive, direct drive and overdrive.
If you shift it into overdrive with a 3:1 rear end the motor will probably not pull it well, even on level ground.
I used a 4:1 rear end with a Warford. I'd say it was just right, although I had problems on slight up grades at 40 MPH.
It was almost too slow for overdrive and a little too fast for direct drive.
The car would lurch in overdrive and the revs were too high in direct.
A 3:1 rear end should be good enough without the WarFord.
Hey Jason, I have a pretty strong motor in my speedster and I run a Warford with a stock rear end. I think you will find that if you run a 3:1 you will mostly use underdrive and when you are going fast direct. With mine I can do 60 mph in Warford overdrive and I don't feel like the engine is revving too much. In fact I'm scared of finding out how fast it will go because I have so much throttle left at that point. With mine, I don't use underdrive very much, it's mostly direct and overdrive to go fast. I do really like underdrive to pull up on a trailer or go slow in a parade. Unless you are going to routinely break 65 mph, a Warford and 3:1 is just too much. You'd need an OHV setup and some super serious front wheel brakes. I think you will find your speedster a lot more drive-able with a stock rear and a Warford, but that's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
Right now it will hit 50mph with a warford and standard gears.....I was just wondering what 3:1 would be like
3:1 won't make it go faster, it'll just be at lower revs at your max speed, while hurting your acceleration. If you want to go faster upgrade your carb first and foremost. That's the easiest and most cost effective way for bolt on engine performance. What exactly are you running now: what carb, ignition, any accessories, etc? And post pics of your speedster please!
I have the 3:1 gears with the Warford. I wish I had the stock gears. I'm scared to 0pen the throttle in high. A lot of hilly terrain in Southern Iowa. I have a plain Jane engine and the speedster needs to be on a slight downhill to get on its way in high Warford.
Allow me to take this discussion sideways ... 25 TT w/ Warford. I wish to drive this beast long distances. What rear end can I swap under it to make it cruise at 50 ? Am I all washed up, or should it perform pretty much like a car with a car rear end under it ?
Brent, there are 2 different rear end gears for TTs, one is low speed (7:1) and one is high speed (5:1). I think a cast iron Warford with a high speed rear end would get you to about 40 or so, but I doubt much more than that. There's just only so much speed you can get when your rear end gear is 5:1.
But if you are willing to swap it to a normal T rear, I've seen a TT with a 26-27 car rear end under it. Since you aren't hauling any heavy loads (not like back in the day) I would think that a car rear end with TT wheels would be a good compromise. Someone else on here would know better, but I bet that would let you do what you want.
Like I'm already mentioning though - changing the gearing is only going to get you so much. If you want to go faster you have to start getting into the engine accessories. New carb like a Stromberg OF is step #1.
The wheel base of a TT is 24" longer than a regular T, while the Warford only adds 12" to the driveshaft, so some extra piece of driveshaft has to be added when converting to a car rear axle.
In the next couple of weeks we will have a Warford ready for sale. Currently being cleaned up and made ready for sale. If anyone is seeking one please call Chris at 903-819-1452 or email at: firstname.lastname@example.org
Roger what does the rear of a TT drive shaft look like? (I don't know, never seen one) I would think the easiest thing to do would be to cut down and machine a TT driveshaft to match the looks of a T driveshaft. Then use a Fun Projects pinion bearing kit.
My speedster came with 3:1 gears installed and I don't care for them at all. Acceleration is not as good as a standard gear and you get limited compression braking on good hills even in low ruckstell.
Why does everyone want to cruise at 50? And in a TT the wind resistance is significant.
With 4:1 gears and a Warford in overdrive I was able to maintain 55 MPH in my stock engined speedster. It did not seem to be over revving.
Wish the new Warfords were offered with alternative gear options. Unless you have speedster and/or an OHV having it in Ford-HIGH and Warford-OVERDRIVE gives you an overall gearing of 3.02 with a standard pinion rear end. Unless you're on a completely flat road it will not be much use I'm guessing with 20 to 26HP engine. A smaller drop in overdrive, say to 3.3 or 3.4 would be more useful IMHO.
Why does everyone want to cruise at 50? And in a TT the wind resistance is significant.
45 is my favored cruising speed, but to answer the question, I want to be able to drive this dog all around the west, through every little town and every backwater two laner from Spokane to San Antone. 17.5 mph just ain't going to cut it !
High speed rear gears and a Warford (old iron version) can get you to 50 on the flat with a tuned T motor. A friend built a motor up for his C cab TT - balanced everything, T crank, Z head, Walbro (?) carb, and a distributor and would zip down the road at 50. Rocky Mtn brakes for whoa power. It wouldn't pull a hill in overdrive but was really a nice truck for touring with stock T's or on it's own. Balancing the motor was significant for both speed and durability.
I used an original Warford for years with stock rear end gears too, and believe me, you do not want 3-1 gears!
I have a Ruxtell with 3.63 gears and one with 3.00 gears. Believe everyone who has advised you against using a Warford with 3,00's. At best, you'll be using underdrive and direct 100% of the time and overdrive, 0% of the time. They don't even recommend a gear under 3.00 to 1 with Model A's which have a lot more torque and horsepower. If you must try, you'll probably be replacing clutch parts in your tranny on a frequent basis.
My 26 touring has a standard differential with low/straight high Warford. I use Warford low to start, straight to "get it going" and OD to cruise. Now, it won't pull hills in OD. To do that your back to straight drive. Don't use 3:1 rear end with a 3 speed Warford unless you have a 300hp motor.
I should have asked this question in January! Now, I will have to change to stock to have peace of mind.
OK, so let's review for the noobie to the T scene:
How does the neophyte PID a rear gear situation, whether it is a 3:1 or 4:1 or other ?
Good intel, Gents. You'll make an expert of me yet ! ;-)
Brent, the overwhelmingly most common rear axle gears in T's are 3.636:1 = 11 tooth pinion with a 40 tooth ring gear. Some heavy sedans were equipped with 10 tooth pinions for 4:1 and some speedsters and light roadsters has been equipped with aftermarket 13 tooth pinions and 39 tooth ring gears for 3:1. There are also 12 tooth pinions available from Chaffins for a better compromise 3.25:1 for speedsters in combination with the 39 tooth ring gears.
If you jack up one rear wheel with the transmission in high direct drive, mark the tire with something tied around the tire and crank the engine (no ignition), you'll have to crank 1.5 turn for one turn of the rear wheel with 3:1, 2 turns for 4:1 and somewhere in between like 1.8 turns for standard 3.636 and 1.6 turns for 3.25:1.
I've got an NOS set of Ruckstell gears on the shelf that are 13/40 or 3.25:1. Were all of the Ruckstell high speed gears 13/40 or were some actually 13/39?
Eric 13/40 would be 3.08:1. Don't know about original Ruckstell gears, but I suspect they only had recessed 40 tooth ring gears - Glen Chaffin would know for sure
I've got a speedster with OH valves and 3.25 gearing, it will pull in OD Warford, but I think you better have some serious power. 3.63 would better IMHO. Steve
Thanks, Roger. I did the math backwards.
Quote: "I've got a speedster with OH valves and 3.25 gearing, it will pull in OD Warford, but I think you better have some serious power. 3.63 would better IMHO. Steve"
I have no experience with Warfords but Steve and other people's comments confirm what I thought (see my above comments).
Has anyone ever approached the makers of the new Warford to look into making perhaps a 10% overdrive for non-speedster/non-OHV cars? I know that Mitchell overdrives for As come in two options, a 25% and 33% I think.
Response from a "lurker" to answer the original question. I'm running a Muncie, same or similar gearing as a Warford, and I love my 3 to 1 rear axle gear ratio. Admittedly it's for high speed driving only, as I don't go into my final gear at speeds under 60 MPH. Old #4 is equipped with Rajo B head, T crank, German Bosch mag. ignition, Juhasz barrel valve carb. and a ruckstell rear axle assy.
Ed aka #4