Has anyone had a stock T on a dyno meter? If so, was the horsepower as advertised (20 hp below)?
Someone has, because I saw a T on a chassis dyno once----I looked in my files because I thought I saved the picture, but I guess not
Google is my friend, LOL. Here you go...
Thank you..... And thanks to the Model T Ford Club of Tulsa.
From the link:
If I remember correctly, it was within the last couple of years that some guys had a dyno at a tour (Canyon Lands?) and tested a lot of T's. There was a variety of results on stock T's, and when cars with special heads and other modifications were added the results ranged from under ten HP to over forty. I think I may have seen this in the MTT.
Here's a video of a 1914 Model T on a chassis dyno. After the run, it sounds to me like one of the operators says it peaked out at 23 horsepower.
Thank you. I've heard some/most dynometer s don't measure accurately on low horsepower cars (I believe Mike V. said the one on the Canyon-lands tour was accurate).
I just weighed our 13, and am trying to come up with horsepower ratios for our Ts, N and K. The 13 weighed 1690 (top, no spare or tools). The K, w/o top, with spare and tools weighed 2900lbs. I'd like to dyno the K and N and get an accurate weight/hp ratio for all three models.
Mark, I think the hp of the '14 touring in the video is 12.7, which sounds right for a stock Ford taken T the wheels.
Thanks Dan, I must have heard it incorrectly.
My horsepower at the Canyonlands tour was considerably less than my horsepower at the Rochester, Mn tour using I believe the same Dyno. The difference is altitude. Something to keep in mind when comparing apples to apples.
A good running stock T has around 20 HP give or take a HP or two.
Bear in mind that the Model T's horsepower was decreased after 1912 when a camshaft change was made, and again in 1917 when the lower compression cylinder head was introduced. A 1913 touring is much slower than a 1909 touring, all things being equal.
The 1909 - 12 Model T's are considerably lighter than succeeding model years due to body construction. The Kingston 5 ball offers more horsepower than any of the later T carburetors (reference dyno tests conducted by Russ Potter).
A 1909 - 11 Model T with a Kingston 5 ball will outperform anything made later if we are comparing unmodified Model T's of any vintage, tuned properly, in good condition.
Another thing to consider, the quality of the engine rebuild and the ability to tune the engine. You can have two stock Model T's of any vintage that will perform much differently due to fundamental lack of knowledge on the part of the people who assembled and tuned the engine.
With only 20 horsepower every thing in a Model T needs to be assembled and machined properly. Something as simple as band adjustment can have a dramatic effect on rear wheel horsepower. Other extremely simple things like coil adjustment and mixture settings can alter performance.
I don't think Ford claimed the 20 horses to be rear wheel hp, guess it was measured on a specially prepared engine without fan, exhaust system or transmission similarily to how SAE gross horsepowers were measured later on?
I couldn't figure how I beat Humble Howard Genrich with my flat head T but here are my dyno figures. Our son Bill took it to a shop with his Detomaso Pantera friends a few years ago and the results were as follows. 47.6 horse power and 100 pounds of torque at 1850 r.p.m.
Bill wasn't sure where to position the spark lever and when he finally advanced it you can see the blip where it jumped up to 3000 revolutions per minute. That blip messed with him and he shut it down.
we run an old aluminum 6 to 1 Reader cylinder head, A Clay Smith boat cam with helasious lift and dwell, an 009 Bosch distributor, headers, Stromberg 97 carburetor with #44 jets, very light flywheel, no fan or water pump, lightweight rods, T crank, . Layne Warford, and a good driver.
At the Lincoln Nebraska hill climb last year we were only beat out by one overhead valve Model T and came home with the trophy.
The gas tank has always been pressurized and it finally popped so we put in an ugly boat tank so I covered it up with a fake boat bow made up to look like a speedboat.
tested a close to stock (Z head) engine with different ignition systems. All shows more the 20 hp.
Aren't the 20hp ALAM HP?
Automobile engine horsepower quoted before maybe 1930 was not brake horsepower (bhp) as measured on a dynamometer, but a calculated number. . Following is from my "Brookes Automobile Handbook", @1919:
"The actual horsepower of an engine can only be determined by making a test with suitable brakes or dynamometers. This method would give the actual brake horsepower. In order to allow ready calculation, the Society of Automobile Engineers' formula is used and is generally recognized. The bore or diameter of the cylinder is first squared; that is, the size in inches is multiplied by itself. This number is then multiplied by the number of cylinders and the result divided by 2 1/2. Thus, for an engine with 5-inch bore: 5x5=25. If of 4 cylinders, 25x4=100, and 100 divided by 2 1/2 gives the result as 40 horsepower. In order to secure approximately correct results, the engine is supposed to be operating at 1,000 feet per minute piston speed."
The table accompanying this paragraph shows for a (Model T) bore of 3 3/4" and 4 cyl, a horsepower of 22.5. Wasn't that the original spec for the early T? 1000 feet per min. piston speed for a 4" stroke, if you assume speed at mid-stroke, is 955 rpm.
In other words, piston stroke, compression ratio, etc., were not considered in horsepower calculations. . This is probably another quaint calculation we inherited from the Brits, and I believe it became known as Taxable Horspower. . That's the explanation for the small bore and long stroke of engines in English cars in past years.
That's my car in the YouTube video. With stock low head, aluminum pistons and a Stipe .250 cam, it's pretty close to stock. I think it would've done a little better if I had backed off the spark advance a little. I had both levers pinned down as if it was a high speed run. The video was taken at the 2011 MTFCI International tour. Milt Roorda, one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, is the fellow in the black shirt helping out with the testing. I think they tested about a hundred Model Ts that week. My dad's '24 touring was one of the top performers. If I recall correctly, there was only one car that beat his without an A crank or overhead valves. It had a Z head, but Dad's car beat several equipped with those. Dad was running a milled stock head, Simmons carb and a Stipe .280 cam. I did massage the intake and exhaust passages a bit when I built his engine.